Homosexual marriage II

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Brownjenkins, all due respect, but that's completely a-historical. The Vatican state has lasted longer than any other medieval country of more flexibility. China was shooting protesters in the square in 1989, and people have been fleeing Hong Kong in droves. You can hardly claim them as a victory for 'openness.' The Ottoman Empire ran from 1299-1922...show me one of your "open societies" with similar longevity.

If that's your criteria, Lief's point wins.

Democracy and openess are very recent history compared to your examples, and China was doing a lot worse than shooting a few protestors 100 years ago. The key is the bad things that don't happen anywhere near as much as they use to anymore, not the bad things that still do.

The Vatican also use to have the power to start wars, as did the King or Queen of England. Do either, while they still exist, still have anywhere near that kind power any more? Can you imagine a scenario where they would ever regain that power?

Dinosaurs dominated the earth for 160 million years. Humans have a few thousand years of domination under our belts. Does this mean that we are destined to eventually lose our dominance to a resurgence of what was obviously a much more successful species than we are?

If all of the western world crashes and burns, and tyranny becomes the norm again, I'll admit I was wrong. But I don't see us taking that many steps backward, though we will certainly take some from time to time, now that the democracy cat is out of the bag.