Queer things you hear....

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by captain carrot

... 'Now let's go slowly here:' - ah ever the charmer, FB! -

never -

Never in the history of the whole moot, has such an indefensible position ever been taken, so recklessly and with such daring audacity!

Then you apparently haven't been around the moot for long. You should read more of our threads.

Let us not got slowly here!

Your overweening haste has landed you in a spot of bother, I fear. Do read on.

s a lamb to the slaughter will you be, if, as king kanute, you stand foursqaure against the incoming tide with only a stick to draw in the sand against the mighty sea ...

Actually, I'm more like Alfred at the Battle of Edington.....

[QUOTE]Were i you, i would re-read your opening position:{/QUOTE]
Please do reread my opening position. Its in message 11, a response to Sam who asks if the reference might be to the Nazgul. My response says "not at that stage, I don't think."

Apart from the incontrovertible evidence and the sheer strength of arguments that can be forwarded that the 'rumours' could easily be attributable to the nine

All dependent on "what ifs" and "I thinks" rather than on anything Tolkien actually wrote. You and Gordis can assume that the strange dwarves from far countries refer to Frodo's family history if you like, but I think that the dwarves of Erebor don't really count as strange dwarves since Frodo has seen plenty of them.

the whole point initially, was not did they refer directly to the nine:

I'm afraid you need to review the thread. The OP simply asks to what the phrase refers. It is not until message 10 that the Nazgul are introduced and Sam asked "could they have been refering to the Nazgul???" That seems to me to be fairly direct, though I acknowledge it may be read in a more general way. But to say that his "point" was not did they refer directly to the 9 is wishful reading.

BECAUSE they had not names in rumour - the question was, were in fact these unamed terrible creatures that had no name in rumour - actually referrring without knowledge in rumour to the Nazgul?

You've missed the point. The point was that if such tales of such creatures as the Nazgul are are rumors being talked about even in the environs of the Shire as early as 3017, then the Wise have surely heard about them and deduced who and what they were and so would have acted much sooner, thwarting Sauron's plans, as he well knew. So it isn't likely that Sauron was letting the 9 out on joy rides to spread terror etc. That he used one as a messenger to a specific locale does not general rumors spread about the West make.

As for the rest, both Olmer and Gor have added enough to, at the very least, make open the very real possibility that RUMOUR might very easily be referring to the Nazgul either directly or indirectly (i.e. the terrible things without name, were actually nazgul, but that RUMOUR did not yet know that or was able to confirm their name, hence they were terrible and nameless in rumour - but what in fact rumour alluded to was the nazgul)

Their arguments have already been dismantled.

There are about a billion other arguments, i just don't have time -

nor the patience to go slowly



Best, BB

Or wisdom apparently.