Homosexual marriage

[Rían]

OK, kids in bed and sitting here with a cuppa ...

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

when you say "we" are you labelling yourself a self-confessed sinner? or are you implying that all other mooters here are all sinners?

I'd better be clear what my definition of "sin" is, because I was using it in a technical theological sense, and it has a different meaning in popular language. My definition comes from how it is used in the Bible - it basically just means "falling short of perfection", even a teensy tiny bit only once. So when I lost my temper today with the kids and got a little snappy, that's sin. I think the popular notion of "sin" is some horrible thing like murder, but that's not the meaning of the word at all. Not only does it include ANY wrong action, no matter how small, it also includes not doing good when you know it's the right thing to do; i.e., if I see someone drop some stuff and I choose to walk on by, when I could stop and help them, that's a sin.

And the purpose of realizing one's sin is not to beat up on yourself, either! Not at all! The purpose, IMO, is to be free of the sins through God's power and grace in your life. IMO the message of Christianity is not "everyone's an awful sinner" - it's everyone's a sinner, yes, face reality! but part of reality is God's love for us, too, and that God took responsibility for creating us with free will by taking on the penalty of our inevitable sins onto himself through his son Jesus dying in our place, and that all this is because God loves us so tremendously and wants a relationship with us so much that he's willing to do everything - EVERYTHING! - except force us to be with him. Real love involves choice - God doesn't want robots to love and to love him, he wants people - real people. And to love God and be loved by him is the highest good for any person, and all other loves come to their full potential in this, too.

So yes, IMO everyone in the world is a "sinner" - IOW, everyone in the world has done wrong, or failed to do what they know is right, at least once in their life. That's the theological meaning of the word, and that's how I was using it. I need to be more careful how I use that word, because really, it's one of those words whose current popular meaning does not match what it's theological meaning is.

Sorry I had to get kinda long and technical on you, but I really didn't want you to think I was sitting around with a terrible scowl on my face, hating people and thinking they're awful sinners in a hating way, when I'm not at ALL - I love people tremendously! I think everyone is a sinner, yes, but I think you'd agree with me, given my definition, that everyone is, wouldn't you? We're all in the same boat, IMO. And we're all sinners in that sense, but the truth is that we're all also amazing, wonderful creations, loved by God so much that he payed a tremendous price to redeem us from our sins. I place a tremendous value on EVERY person, as I believe God does. It's just facing reality that all of us have sinned at least once in our lives and are therefore "sinners" in the theological sense.