Homosexual marriage

[Rían]

I'm not quite sure I understand you, Jonathan - you want someone who thinks marriage should be between one man and one woman to explain why people should NOT marry animals, in their opinion? Well, the easy answer is that animals aren't men or women. I'm not quite sure I'm understanding you ...

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

again - either you are honest and serious about this dear Ri, or you are not being serious and more importanly not being honest about this.

which is it?

I'm being dead serious about this, BB. Dead serious. But I think you misunderstood my post - I wasn't claiming that I thought it was right (I would be dishonest if I said that!) I was challenging those who think gay marriage is right to explain why THEY think animal/human marriage is wrong. Do you see what I mean?

before God almighty here and now, you and Inked wish to swear to me that and all the mooters here that you advocate legally and morally humans having sexual relations with animals?

No, I don't think that's right.

What I'm doing is challenging people who say that forms of marriage outside of one man/one woman are just fine to tell me why animal/human marriage should be denied to a sincere animal lover. I don't see any logical reason that THEY could give - seriously. I know a logical reason that I could give, but I sincerely don't see a logical reason that THEY could give.

If not - then again out of respect for all the mooters here, please do not bait other mooters who in all fairness made a valid point without any personal rancour on this occasion to anyone else.

I'm not baiting. I'm sincerely asking - and I'm dead serious - what reason people have to deny a really sincere animal lover the right to express their sexuality and love the way they want to. The arguments I see from the people who want to make gay marriage legal where they live (if it's not already) boil down to this: if a person sincerely loves another person, they should be able to marry; a person shouldn't deny their sexuality; marriage isn't all about sex, anyway, it's about love. So given those things, why deny a sincere - and I'm talking SINCERE - animal lover the right to marry their beloved animal?

IRex mentioned 2 things - legal consent and animal abuse. The animal abuse thing is easy to answer - you guys say over and over that it's not all about sex, and get our dirty minds out of other people's bedrooms, etc. Well, then, I tell you to take your own words seriously. A person that sincerely loved their cat wouldn't hurt them - they'd find ways to work with their sexuality, and why in the world do you even want to stick your nose in their bedrooms? That's what you tell me a lot. And a marriage isn't all about sex, either, as you tell me so often.

Legal consent - so change the laws, just like you're trying to change laws about who can marry. It's pretty obvious if an animal likes its owner or not. Make some rules about how to determine this legally, and stop denying sincere animal lovers their sincere wish to marry their animals.

What's up with you guys? Seriously!!! I'm dead serious. What do you guys have against beastiality? Isn't it just a cultural thing, if there's no absolute truths? Personally, I think it's very wrong, but what do you guys who say that there's no absolute truth have against it LOGICALLY? I don't think you have ANY logical reason; do you?

You know, if the people that are for gay marriage just said, simply and sincerely, "I think gay marriage is a good thing, although I really have no logical reason for limiting marriage expansion to just gay marriage" then I'd have no trouble with your statements. I'd explain why I disagree, and we could discuss it for as long as we want to. It's when the gay marriage side tries to claim moral and logical high ground that doesn't exist that it bugs me.

People - if there's no absolute right and wrong, how can gay marriage be right? If morals are determined by culture, would you seriously have no problem if our culture determined that animal/person marriages are just fine? Would you say, "Well, since our culture now says they're fine, then they're just fine with me, since I don't have to marry an animal personally"? I hear that argument used against me a lot; what do you think of it when I apply it to you guys? Is it suddenly invalid?

I also hear about human snobbery a lot over on evolution threads - how it's really conceited to think we're somehow different than other animals. Well, then, don't be snobs and deny animal/human marriage to those who want it! Be consistent! I don't think it's right, and I've explained why, but if you're going to use an argument one place, then you'd better be darn sure you don't object to someone using that same argument against YOU! Does the logicality suddenly evaporate if it's used AGAINST you instead of BY you? Of course not!

Do to others as you would have them do onto you.

I personally am a big beleiver in this.

So am I.