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Old 04-30-2006, 08:21 AM   #21
CAB
Elven Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olmer
Yes, I agree with Gordis, Denethor deciphered the dream, but I think, he understood instantly what is "Isildur's bane" , for he did not strike me as a person who would be completely ignorant about the history of the founders of the city and country.
He is more than sure that on the meeting in Imladris will be discussed matters of topmost importance for the welfare of Gondor. Because only EXTREMELY IMPORTANT and CONFIDENTIAL mission could tear the Captain of the White Tower and commander of the army away from the warfare's theatre. If Denethor really needed to CONSULT and INTERPRETE a DREAM, he would send Faramir.
I believe Olmer may be correct. When talking with Frodo, Faramir revealed that he already believed that Isildur had taken “somewhat from the hand of the Unnamed...some heirloom of power...a fell weapon perchance, devised by the Dark Lord”. What items fit this description? I can only think of one. Also notice how Faramir said the “hand of the Unnamed”. Now this may mean nothing or it may mean that Faramir guessed this item to be the One Ring. If Denethor had also come to this conclusion, he may have made the connection to “Isildur’s Bane”, a connection Faramir later made himself.

As Olmer says, Gondor’s primary captain and heir to the Stewardship wouldn’t be sent on this errand unless it was extremely important that he go. Open war with Mordor was imminent.

Earniel may be right that Boromir simply took the errand upon himself. This is the straightforward explanation from the text, and so, may be the best one. But why would Boromir be so interested in a riddling dream, which, so far as he knows, says nothing about defeating Sauron in the war which is so close at hand, interested enough to travel hundreds of miles in search of the answer, while leaving his army without his leadership? I think is possible that Denethor may have influenced Boromir here with a few well chosen words, without Boromir realizing it. Denethor was much greater than Boromir mentally. I am not sure why Denethor couldn’t have simply told Boromir what he believed the dream meant though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landroval
We must keep in mind that there can be no forceful transmission of thought - all the parties involved in the communication must be willing and opened for it to happen.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting (I know I’m not) that Gandalf forced the trip from Minas Tirith to Rivendell. He may have sent the dream/thought as influence (just as he influenced, not forced, Frodo on Amon Hen) to convince one of Denethor’s sons to go. Anyway, if he had forced the action, it would have been Faramir that went, not Boromir. If you are saying that communication itself can’t be forced, you may be right. I don’t think that the brothers would have been shielding their minds from Gandalf though. Frodo certainly wasn’t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landroval
Of the Numenoreans, not even Isildur could have wield the ring; of all the beings in M.E., only Gandalf can be suspected of having such a power over the ring. The ring being brought to Gondor would have helped no one, it would have corrupted the city even worse.
This may be true. But the important question here is did Denethor agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landroval
Boromir is the only one in the fellowship who doesn't make it alive; his attitude and deed are most reprobable of them all. He was the weak link
This may be true again. However we have to look at things from Denethor’s point of view. If his plan was to have the Ring brought to Minas Tirith, then Boromir was the right man for the job and Faramir probably wasn’t.
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