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#11 | |||||||
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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The relevant things will be the following: 1.Umbar was one of the two greatest havens of Numenoreans since 2280 Second Age. It was the haven of King's men, while Pelargir was the haven of the Faithful. a. UT: "before its downfall Men of Númenor had explored the coasts of Middle-earth far southward, their settlements beyond Umbar had been absorbed, or being made by men already in Númenor corrupted by Sauron had become hostile and parts of Sauron's dominions" b. LOTR Appendices :"TA 933 King Eärnil I takes Umbar, which becomes a fortress of Gondor". That means BEFORE that it was NOT a fortress of Gondor. c. Silm: " And Sauron gathered to him great strength of his servants out of the east and the south; and among them were not a few of the high race of Númenor. For in the days of the sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts of well nigh all its people had been turned towards darkness. Therefore many of those who sailed east in that time and made fortresses and dwellings upon the coasts were already bent to his will, and they served him still gladly in Middle-earth. But because of the power of Gil-galad these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away; yet two there were, Herumor and Fuinur, who rose to power among the Haradrim, a great and cruel people that dwelt in the wide lands south of Mordor beyond the mouths of Anduin." In this stoty it was Fuinur who sent the small fleet to Tharbad following the ML bidding 2. At the moment of the Downfall both Pelargir and Umbar were bound to have BIG fleets stationed there- certainly lots of small coastal vessels, that never travelled to Numenor and were kept in ME havens. There were bound to be shipyards aplenty as well. 3. Umbar was a great NATURAL haven - see in Silm: "the mighty haven of the Númenóreans that no hand had wrought." Look at it on the map as well: it is quite well sheltered from the Sea, much better than Pelargir. So the destruction caused by the Downfall must have affected Umbar much less than Pelargir. 4.Both Umbarians and Gondoreans most probably continued building ships - at least coastal ships: Isildur escaped from Osgiliath by ship; Umbarians had to build ships to assure communication with numerous smaller havens south along the coast. 5.The building of GREAT navies and big seagoing ships in Gondor happened much later: LOTR: "With Tarannon, the twelfth king, began the line of the Ship-kings, who built navies and extended the sway of Gondor along the coasts west and south of the Mouths of Anduin. To commemorate his victories as Captain of the Hosts, Tarannon took the crown in the name of Falastur 'Lord of the Coasts'. Eärnil I, his nephew, who succeeded him, repaired the ancient haven of Pelargir, and built a great navy. He laid siege by sea and land to Umbar, and took it, and it became a great harbour and fortress of the power of Gondor." Quote:
They wouldn't attack either Gondor or Arnor in force, and they didn't. Twelve small ships are no big deal. Sure, the captains take great risks, but they hope to be rewarded by big plunder. The expedition was proposed to them not by a nazgul, but by the Lord of Umbar, who remembers old alliances. After all, what is for him the loss of 12 small ships in case of defeat? Quote:
Sailing right past Gondor was not a small feat, of course, as even much later corsairs rarely went past Anfalas. But for small ships travelling by night, or further away from the coast and attacking nobody, it was feasible, I believe. But it was certainly unheard of before: that's why Arnor felt so secure. Quote:
As well, can you give me ONE reason why the Eagles of Crissaeglir haven't warned the population of Gondolin of the approaching foes? If we reason as you do, there would NEVER be a single SURPRIZE attack! Quote:
We are not playing a war game. We are basically writing a common story. I don't see why two sides can't come to an agreement, instead of making warlike statements. And more: we are proposing new events to enliven the game. That is met by hostility - so what? Should we stagnate in our classes? What new ideas do you, FOGALS, propose? I feel all I say is falling on DEAF EARS. ![]() Last edited by Gordis : 01-21-2006 at 10:50 AM. |
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