Teen Abstinence

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

Wrong. I'm not concerned with such behaviors. There are already laws that deal with those types of behaviors.

Right. And if there weren't, I assume you'd want to lobby to put them into place, since you think they're wrong, as you say later on in your post.

That's all I'm trying to point out - that neither one of us are concerned with other people's acceptable sexual acts, but that we BOTH are concerned with what we think are HARMFUL acts of others involving sexual behavior, such as rape. We may differ as to what we think is acceptable and non-harmful, that's all.

We're also both concerned with harmful acts of others that do NOT involve sexual behavior, but that wasn't what your original quote was on.

They were not germane to the discussion about abstinence education, i.e. a discussion about what to teach teenagers about normative sexual behaviors.

IMO, YOUR comment about Lawrence was the first off-topic one, and I responded to it But again, we have different opinions - so what? Makes for interesting discussions!

Wrong again. You decided that it would be an effective tactic to toss irrelevant behaviors into the mix on a discussion about abstinence education, which is again, discussion nominally about normative sexual behaviors.

Irrelevant in YOUR opinion, not in mine. Totally relevant in response to your comment on Lawrence.

Anyone with any common sense would have known that sexual behavior in the context of such a discussion referred to normative sexual behavior.

Yes, so why did you throw in the comment about Lawrence and minding other people's sex lives? IMO, that was off-topic. Not that I mind (see my title), but please don't criticize me for being off-topic if you went there first!

If you think that means I changed my position, or my meaning, or my intent, you are mistaken.

Blackheart, I honestly don't think it changed your meaning, but your meaning was unclear, and by being unclear, it was an insult, based on faulty logic, to people that happen to think Lawrence was a bad decision. My comments made you clarify your position, which is fine, and which takes away you (apparently intended) insult for those who disagree with the Lawrence decision. Your clarified position is now: "I meant I'm against the government in any form minding other people's normative sexual behavior." I TOTALLY agree with you! The only difference we have is in our definition of "normative", and our definitions are based on our unproven and unproveable worldviews. So we're equal

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have explained it more clearly to you. People who generally voice such objections equate behaviors like rape and pedephillia with homosexuality and sodomy. Which is exactly what the legal decision was about. I'm sorry you don't find homosexual behavior and sodomy acceptable, but I do. So no, you can't put words in my mouth by saying that because I find sodomy and homosexual behavior acceptable, I must find rape and pedophelia acceptable.

I didn't put those words in your mouth - I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. I was only saying that sodomy, and heterosexual sex, and rape, and pedophilia, all involve some type of sexual behavior. It's that simple. Classic male/female rape is probably the easiest example - intercourse between a male and female - when forced, we both think it's wrong. When consensual, and in a man/woman marriage, we both think it's right (at least I do, and as far as I can tell, you do too). You also think it's OK in other situations, based on your worldview. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and so am I.

I'll only state once more, that the only reason I am concerned with those types of behaviors, are because they are violent predatory behaviors. The fact that they have sexual connotations are of only secondary concern to me.

I completely agree with you here.

No I don't. I don't care what people do in their bedrooms, on stage, or in their cars. As long as it it is consensual, i.e. violence isn't used to coerce someone i.e. it isn't an ASSAULT, I don't think it's any of the government's business.

Yes, you DO care - you just said "as long as it is consensual". See, you have limits that you put on these types of things, and so do I. So what's the big deal if we disagree? I'm perfectly willing to even say that you might be right, because I'm openminded. Are you willing to say I might be right?

Of course I didn't say so, because anyone should have known that such a statement meant normative sexual behavior in the current context. You were the one who dragged those kinds of irrelevant behaviors into the discussion, by insinuating that I must be for repealing rape and pedephelia statutes.

All I did was point out something that IMO is extremely important - that we both have opinions on what is normative/acceptable. Lawrence happens to support an opinion of what YOU think is acceptable and I don't, and you made what I took to be a snide comment on minding other people's sex lives that hinges ENTIRELY on the UNSTATED fact that you were talking about normative/acceptable behaviors. To me, that's a CRITICAL point to establish, so ... I established it. That's all.

Since I obviously am NOT, I could only conclude that since you seem in favor of regarding those types of behavior as sexual behaviors, and the discussion context was about normative sexual behaviors, you must regard them as normative. I'm relieved to find that you do not.

You know, if it wasn't for the comment about minding other people's sex lives, I would never have even brought this up.

But it sucks to have someone purposefully "misunderstand" you doesn't it? If you want the real reason, it was to illustrate graphically how such tactics are destructive to discussions. You knew quite well that such behaviors were not within the scope of what I was talking about, but you chose to throw them in anyway.

Yes, because again, IMO it's critical to establish that you're talking specifically about normative/acceptable behaviors! Once this is established, it's obvious that it's only personal opinions on BOTH sides, and your comment about minding other people's sex lives falls flat on its face as far as an insult, because you do the same thing.