Some Questions Regarding States/Provinces

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Dark Lord Sauron
-Rhovanion. I'm not going on much here so bear with me. What was the exact date of the founding of Vidugavia's kingdom? I know it had to be sometime before 1366.

Tolkien doesn't say when it was founded. Minalcar became Regent of Gondor in 1240 and in 1248 he conducted his cleansing campaign in which he destroyed all the camps of the Easterlings he could find and chastized the disloyal Northman princes. His chief ally was Vidugavia, and in 1250 Minalcar sent his son Valacar as an ambassador to Vidugavia's kingdom. Valacar married Vidugavia's daughter, Vidumavi. According to "The Heirs of Elendil" in The Peoples of Middle-earth, Eldacar, the son of Valacar and Vidumavi, was born in 1255. "The Heirs of Elendil" is the only source we have for the birth years of the kings of Arnor and Gondor, but some of the details of the entries conflict with the LoTR appendices, so the information must be used carefully.

What was the exact nature of the relationship between Rhovanion and Gondor? Previously, Gondor had wiped out an Easterling force in that area, so was it encouraging migration from the Northmen? Or did they come on their own will? Did Gondor cede southern Rhovanion to them (I do not believe so since when the Wainriders overran s. Rhovanion, it was Gondorian)?

Gondor appears to have first come into contact with the Northmen during the period of 490-667 (the end of the reign of Ostoher, father of Tarostar/Romendacil I, through the end of the reign of Turambar, son of Tarostar). Ostoher died in 492, two years after the Easterlings first attacked Gondor. Tarostar led the defense of Gondor and he defeated the Easterlings, taking the name Romendacil when he became king in 492.

Romendacil was slain by Easterlings in a second wave of attacks in 541, and Turambar (his son) defeated the Easterlings, winning "much territory eastwards."

It was probably Turambar who negotiated the first treaties with the Northmen and gave some of their princes land between Greenwood the Great (as it was then known) and Mordor (which was still under Gondor's control).

If Vidugavia's ancestors were the Free Men of the North who gradually spread down the eastern side of Greenwood during the first centuries of the Third Age, then they probably settled in what became his kingdom before Minalcar's time. They may already have been there in the 6th century when Turambar was whomping the Easterlings.

But since the narrative in Appendix A says of Vidugavia that "he called himself King of Rhovanion", it may be that Vidugavia had established his rule over other Northman princes, and that prior to his time there had been several competing tribes or clans in the same region with no clear leadership.

Hence, Vidugavia could have established his dominance over the other Northmen in his area as early as 1225 or as late as 1248, if we assume he was about middle-aged when his daughter married Valacar.

Rhovanion streched from Mirkwood to the Celduin river. Did it reach as far as Rhun? I do not believe so but I have nothing to back that up.

All we have to go on is the statement in the appendix that "his own realm lay between Greenwood and the River Celduin". I agree that his realm probably did not extend into Rhun (which would have lain beyond Celduin) but it may extended TO Rhun. Keep in mind, however, that what we call Rhun is technically the name of a direction on the maps. "Rhun" just means "East", and "Sea of Rhun" is the only example of a specific place-name which incorporates "Rhun" into it (except possibly Rhudaur, but Rhudaur was not in the eastern regions of Middle-earth, so it was not in what we call Rhun).

Aragorn also said he had been to "Rhun and Harad where the stars are strange" (the stars probably just applying to Harad, the south), so Rhun could also have been used the way we use "the Orient" to speak of central and eastern Asia.

-Khand, Harad, etc. Is there any sort of list of rulers for these tribes?

None of which I am aware.

What was the relationship between the Near Harad and Far Harad?

One was closer to Gondor and Mordor than the other. Near Harad probably represents a region with which Gondor had close relations, whereas Far Harad probably just represents a region which lent military support to Gondor's enemies. That is just my guess.

-Wainriders. Were exactly did the Wainriders come from? Were they destroyed after the Battle of the Camp, or did they continue to survive? If so, where? After Gondor defeated them in battle in 1899 did it bother to reclaim southern Rhovanion? Did the Wainriders maintain any sort of presence in Rhovanion between 1899 and the invasion with the Harad and Khand?

The Wainriders were a group of Easterlings who migrated westward, eventually crossing the Celduin and conquering Vidugavia's Kingdom of Rhovanion (some 600 years after his time, of course). They probably were like the Huns, Mongols, and Turks: that is, a group of related tribes, speaking the same language and practicing the same culture, who had been united under a single powerful leader.

Sauron was the real power behind the Wainriders, although Appendix A only says they were stirred up by his emissaries -- implying, I think, that they had become organized before he approached them (and it may be that he only approached them because he saw they HAD become so well organized).

The Northmen were devastated by the Great Plague in 1635 (that is the correct year according to "Cirion and Eorl" in Unfinished Tales, so the plagued was transmitted to Gondor by the Northmen the next year). The Plague came during winter and affected both men and horses. It sounds very much like a respiratory illness or flu, rather than something like Bubonic Plague.

Over half the Northmen died from the Great Plague, but apparently the Easterlings suffered heavily too, because it would be another 200 years before they were strong enough to attack the Northmen.

One would think the Northmen could have recovered their numbers in 200 years, but then, what would their population have been like if the Great Plague had not affected them at all?

The Wainriders were never fully defeated. That is, Gondor never recovered the lost lands. All Gondor was ever able to achieve was the destruction of their main power. But Gondor itself (and the Eotheod, who had emerged as a new, separate people by the end of the Wainrider Wars) was too weak to recover the eastern lands.

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