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Old 06-20-2004, 02:24 PM   #21
Wayfarer
The Insufferable
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
Quote:
While it is true that Aman was the most beautiful place in the world, I don't think that the rest of ME had no joy in there or beauty.

I don't think that the Elves of Middle Earth were completely deprived of joy.
You're both right, of course... people in Middle Earth were never deprived of joy - and it's often seemed to me that living in middle earth would be more blissful than living in valinor.

But the question isn't whether the Valar succeeded in monopolizing all goodness for themselves, it's the fact that they seem to have tried.

Let me make a rather dangerous parallell - Light. The Valar were entrusted with all of Arda. When they first entered it, they decided it needed light, and set up the two lamps, which would illuminate the entire world. Melkor foiled that plan, so their next recourse was the two trees - however, this time they only bothered to light the very small portion of the world where they were staying, and (If I remember aright) only the loud insistance of certain parties kept them from completely shutting that light off from the rest of the world.

Of course, the third time they got it right, with the Sun and the Moon which gave light to everyone in more or less equal share.

I see a rough trend towards the same thing in terms of goodness. Like so:

The valar were charged with making the world good. At first, they were out and about, hard at work with the task - the Spring of Arda. When Melkor started to cause trouble, they ran away and hid in Valinor - now almost all of their efforts, all of their work, seems to be concentrated on that one area. So, when the elves awoke their first action was to drag them all to valinor. I do not think this is right. Why did the valar not come out into middle earth and make it as beautiful as they had made Valinor? Is it not their responsibility and the Elves' birthright?

Quote:
I have always found the contrast between the actions of the Valar and Eru with repsect to the Morgoth threay and the Ar Pharozon threat very strange.
Actually, I think can quite understand what happened. You have to at first notice that the Valar made no specefic requests of Eru. They simply called on him and laid down their guardship.

"Hey! Come deal with these kids of yours!"
"Um, yeah... I know we /said/ we'd watch them, but they're getting out of hand, so if you could just step in..." ];-)

I see it as a difference in approach between the Valar and Eru. The Valar pussyfooted around and dithered, letting evil get a foothold, because they didn't want to hurt their friends and they didn't fully understand the depth of the evil that had taken them.

Eru, on the other hand, knows all. He steps in and takes action because he knows it's nescessary.

Quote:
The thing that strikes me as unfair is that Men never got to see Valinor.
What strikes me as the most unfair is what the Numenoreans phrase like this:
Quote:
"Why should we not go even to Tol Eressea, and visit our friends there?"
This was said by those who had not rebelled against the Vlar, and who were still friends with the elves. The Noldor came to visit them often, bearing gifts why could they not reciprocate in kind?

Quote:
Also, I would venture a guess that a possible reason for the difference between the way the Valar and Eru handled the Morgoth wars and the Treason of Numenor, was that the Numenorians, who were origionally happy little elf-friends, suddenly became worshipers of the dark who sacrificed living people in worship of Sauron and Morgoth, and they basically publicly told Eru and his Valar to go something something something, so it was personal.
I agree it was personal - but more personal than Melkor, who was their brother, turning against them? And while Morgoth never built a fleet to attack them, you must admit that what attacks he did make were far more effective than anything Ar Pharazon could have mustered.
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Last edited by Wayfarer : 06-20-2004 at 02:35 PM.
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