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Old 10-23-2002, 03:46 AM   #11
Artanis
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
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Welcome Tar-Palantir! I saw your post count just now. Hope you enjoy yourself here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tar-Palantir
1. foreknowledge = predestination
Agree. But I'm not sure Eru knew everything in detail on beforehand, see 2 and 3.
Quote:
2. predestination and free choice do not contradict each other.
This is where I don't agree. I still hold on to this: If Eru had foreknowledge of every choice his creatures would take before he created them, then he is ultimately responsible for all actions of his creatures, and free will is not free, only seemingly so.

You say all history was pre-determined within the music of the Ainur. I think that's right in a large scale, in macrocosmos, and is what might be called destiny. But history does not need to be predetermined at the level of each individual. As you say, history unfolds as free creatures make free choices, but rather than these choices being predetermined, I think there's numerous possible combinations of choices which all contributes to the predestined history of the world in the end. But Eru does not know in advance the choice of each individual.

And mustn't we also remember that the Ainur do not come from the music?
Quote:
3. A universe which contains evil does not mean the Creator of said universe is evil, nor does it make him guilty.
I agree with this, but I think Eru at least is capable of doing evil. The Ainur represent different parts of his personality, and they were capable of doing evil, at least Melkor was. Also I agree with Lief Erikson in that you don't have to know evil to appreciate goodness.

I don't know if all this makes sense, I'm just trying to explain it to myself. You people are of great help!
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