03-26-2002, 07:37 PM | #241 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wilmore, KY
Posts: 269
|
One action doesn't make a person unrighteous, especially if later repented for. Take the example of David as well for that. In the case of Lot, you have to understand the customs of the day. These angels were visitors in Lot's house. It was the custom to protect visitors at all costs. If you will note, this action never did actually take place. That is an act of individual wrongness on the part of Lot, not God doing something cruel or injust, so I fail to see why you brought it up while using my quote at the same time. I guess that I didn't make what I said earlier as clear as it should have been. God doesn't do cruel things without justice. People do bad things, and there isn't an excuse for it always. That is why repentance and forgiveness is so neccesary
__________________
Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote. |
03-26-2002, 07:58 PM | #242 |
The Rogue Elf
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,722
|
That's the problem with Christianity: do whatever you want! Just make sure to say you're sorry. I'm gonna go murder a few people now, because, hey, all I have to do is ask for forgiveness later and repent
Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 03-26-2002 at 08:02 PM. |
03-26-2002, 08:01 PM | #243 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wilmore, KY
Posts: 269
|
It isn't just saying that you are sorry. It is actually being sorry and genuinely repenting. If you go out and murder people, intending to ask for forgiveness later, something tells me that the repentance isn't going to be genuine, and it won't end up doing you much good.
__________________
Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote. |
03-26-2002, 08:06 PM | #244 | ||||||||||
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Quote:
Nothing in these references "invalidates" radiometric dating as a whole. Exceptions to a rule do not invalidate the rule. Most of these exceptions are regarding specific cases and do not address the age of the earth. Quote:
[QUOTE] Brooks, C., D. E. James, and S. R. Hart, "Ancient Lithosphere: Its Role in Young Continental Volcanism," Science, vol. 193 (September 17, 1976), pp. 1086-1094. "One serious consequence of the mantle isochron model is that crystallization ages determined on basic igneous rocks by the Rb-Sr whole-rock technique can be greater than the true age by many hundreds of millions of years. This article references isotopic inheritance;igneous rocks inheriting the age of the parent rock. The age of the parent rock is still measured in millions of years, not hundreds. This is a question of precision not accuracy. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
All geological researchers rely on radiometric data to date. If any serious challenge to the technique would result in the abandonment of the technique, which has not occurred to date. The documentation of the possible processes that can cause results to vary only strengthen the knowledge of how to effectively apply the radiometric dating technique. Deletions have been made to accomodate message lengh limit. See orginal post for full text.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
||||||||||
03-26-2002, 08:07 PM | #245 |
The Rogue Elf
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,722
|
Who said I wasn't going to be genuwine about it? What if it actually hurts me later? Why if I actually feel sorry for what I've done? Then all I have to do is ask for forgiveness and walla! Free ticket to Heaven. Where's the fairness in that? To not pay for what you've done? And don't say you pay "with your own mental pain" - once in heaven, that's all over with. You're happy. But still, you've done others very wrong, that mental anguish does not make up for. The whole system is out of right.
Basically you're still saying do whatever you want - just feel bad about it later and ask for forgiveness. My message is live the best you can. In your eyes, God made us. He created us. With that comes how we work. And if humans are capable of love, they are capable of hate. Therefore in creating us, creating the way we work: he has given us these abilities to do these things. Never give someone the ability to do something you don't want them to do. That's his big flaw. If he did it on purpose, however, and he punishes them - and I manipulate a quote from Ever After -- What are you but making criminals and then punishing them for it, when you're the one who raised them that way? Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 03-27-2002 at 01:00 AM. |
03-26-2002, 08:16 PM | #246 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
Posts: 2,679
|
Rogue Elf
The problem is that after something like pre-meditated murder, you never do know whether you've repented enough. The belief is that you cannot judge yourself. Even if you get off lightly with a life sentence or have good lawyers, you only get off with the laws of Man. You don't know until after you're dead how you will actually be judged. Therein lies the deterrent to such high crimes or mortal sins. This issue I've discussed with inmates during one of those outreach programs to penitentiaries we went to ages ago.
This is just to clarify how I view it as an individual who just happens to be christian (probably not a very good one, but we try).
__________________
Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... Last edited by Arathorn : 03-26-2002 at 08:35 PM. |
03-26-2002, 08:22 PM | #247 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Here is something I came across - Secular Humanism . I don't consider myself to belonging to any "group" or labeling myself. But I thought this came close to some of my beliefs, although I didn't look that deep into the website - so there may be things there that I disagree with. Sorry I'm an individual - not a group person.
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-26-2002 at 08:23 PM. |
|
03-26-2002, 08:27 PM | #248 |
The Rogue Elf
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,722
|
If that is so, Arathorn, then why is everyone telling me forgiveness is the only way? It seems you are judging how valid forgiveness is. Really, what's the truth here?
"Religion is based mainly upon fear...fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race." --Bertrand Russell |
03-26-2002, 08:31 PM | #249 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Well in the Catholic Religion we were always taught about Pergatory. Even if you repented for your sins on earth - you still had to go to Pergatory to wait it out before being let into Heaven. If they were really bad - like murder - then you just went straight to Hell. Of course at the same time they taught us that god was all forgiving.
The one thing I really never understood was Limbo - to me that made NO sense what so ever. Babies that had NOT been baptized and obsolved of original sin (Adam and Eve eating the apple) were stuck in limbo for ever. Doesn't seem very forgiving or just to me.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-26-2002 at 08:32 PM. |
03-26-2002, 08:37 PM | #250 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wilmore, KY
Posts: 269
|
You are right that no ammount of being sorry is enough. That is why Jesus had to die for our sins. Pergatory isn't exactly a Biblical thing, it is more of a tradition for Catholics I guess. Forgiveness is the only way. It wipes away our sin so that we are clean in God's eyes. Forgiveness can only come from Jesus, which is why belief in him is the essential thing. I personally don't believe because of fear. Yes, there is eternal punishment for disbelief, but there is so much reward that comes from belief. I focus more on benefits rather than on the fear of going to hell if I do bad things.
__________________
Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote. |
03-26-2002, 08:38 PM | #251 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
rogue elf that is one of my favorite sites
Cirdan i'm glad you were here for that. i got lost in the gabble obvious the poster does not know about geology and posted some stuff that he didn;t understand and probably only a geo person would so it sounds impressive to a layman but to a pro you sliced through it like fingolfin through a battalion of orcs kudos
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
03-26-2002, 08:43 PM | #252 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
Posts: 2,679
|
Yes. And in answer to JD's questions (which I also asked myself for a long time) on limbo, everything will be answered on judgement day. Purgatory, it is believed, is a temporary state of hell; with a long wait. But the speed by which you go to heaven is determined by how many living people ask God to forgive you. You don't know, of course; and you can't ask other dead souls to pray for you or pray for yourself. The time for that is up.
That's how our younger more educated parish priest puts it.
__________________
Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
03-26-2002, 08:43 PM | #253 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Well the Catholic School I went to in Princeton taught that you didn't have to go to confession - because God already knew if you were truly sorry for your sins. We did go to mass every other Friday though.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
03-26-2002, 08:55 PM | #254 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
Posts: 2,679
|
I personally believe that all these other rituals are merely to assure people that something's happening with their efforts; sort of a receipt.
When the priest absolves you after you tell him your sins, it's just so you have a voice and a face to put with your confession. OH well.
__________________
Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
03-26-2002, 08:57 PM | #255 | |
The Rogue Elf
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,722
|
Quote:
Religion has convinced the world that there's an invisible man who lives up in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll go to a burning place with a lake of fire and be tortured there until the end of eternity -- but he loves you. I would also love to quote George Carlin (I think I'm going to follow him on this one): "I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to 'God' are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate." Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 03-26-2002 at 09:03 PM. |
|
03-26-2002, 09:02 PM | #256 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middle Earth (I wish)
Posts: 670
|
Quote:
And Twilight, keep on posting because you're like fifty times smarter than me.
__________________
Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE |
|
03-26-2002, 09:04 PM | #257 | |||||||||||||||||||
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
|
Quote:
Your theory claims that the universe originated in a big bang, everything is spontaneously organized, the earth is billions of years old, life originated from nonliving chemicals, and everything has evolved from a common ancestor. Have I left anything out? I certainly got the impression that you're claiming that what you say is true. Quote:
Quote:
Creationism is just a theory. However, it's a theory which I believe more likely than evolution. Regardless of what we both believe, they're in the same boat as far as proof goes. Quote:
Quote:
However, since the energy state of the universe is gradually becoming stagnant, it's highly unlikely that the universe is self-existant. Quote:
Quote:
Heresy! A Dissident! Get him! Grab him! Lock him up! beat him soundly with rubber chickens! Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You've been doing it as well. Quote:
Quote:
a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith That pretty well describes you guys. Quote:
Quote:
There must be something that is self existant. It's irrational to say otherwise. This something must have existed forever (otherwise it woud have a cause), and can never stop existing (because it causes itself to exist) Now, what I said, much earlier in this discourse, is that this self-existent system can be one of two things: God, or the Universe. It's a pointless question. Something that has no beginning needs no cause. Whether this is god or a steady-state universe. Quote:
I think CS Lewis put it best. God inhabits the Eternal Now. There is no past or future to God, and therefore the line of reasoning unravels. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
He could have created brainwashed humans. But brainwashed humans would be incapable of having the kind of relationship with Him that He wants.
__________________
Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
|||||||||||||||||||
03-26-2002, 09:05 PM | #258 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middle Earth (I wish)
Posts: 670
|
Quote:
__________________
Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE |
|
03-26-2002, 09:12 PM | #259 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middle Earth (I wish)
Posts: 670
|
Quote:
__________________
Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE |
|
03-26-2002, 09:16 PM | #260 |
The Rogue Elf
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,722
|
Khadrane, have you personally talked to God about this? Because as far as I'm concerned that's your point of view, not his. He created Hell to send them there - if he didn't want to, he wouldn't. And first of all, they just don't believe in God, they don't, however, believe in pain and torture as fun. So what's the point in the torturing? Obviously, God wants to put them there to hurt them. If he was just "giving them what they want" he wouldn't let them be tortured. End of argument.
Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 03-26-2002 at 09:20 PM. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Religious Knowledge Thread | Gwaimir Windgem | General Messages | 631 | 07-21-2008 04:47 PM |