04-30-2010, 03:26 AM | #21 | |
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EllethValatari, I think your essay is interesting and worth considering.
(Though I agree with Midge about paragraphing. I actually cut and pasted your wall of text and introduced paragraphs myself to make it legible). Am I getting your conclusion right? Your answer to "why study maths?" is (apart from it being practical) because maths is a kind of beauty and a way of coming closer to God? I think practicality must always be the #1 reason for why math should be taught in schools. Poetry, another kind of beauty, isn't nearly as useful and thus can't be mandatory in the way maths classes are. Wouldn't the question "why study poetry?" elicit the same points, i.e. beauty and divinity (or the closeness thereof), without you having to deal with the sheer usefulness of the subject? For the sake of correctness I thought I'd comment the following quote: Quote:
Planets are far from perfect spheres. You touch on that subject yourself in the next paragraph when you write that there is no such thing as a perfect circle in nature. Furthermore the angle of the hydrogen atoms in water is not "precisely 105 degrees". First, the number is rounded. Second, the angle varies constantly. 105 degrees however is the most stable angle. So at any given point, chances are biggest that the angle is about 105 in a water molecule, rather than any other angle. Then there's the Heisenberg uncertainty principle which seems to pervade the universe and shatter all hopes of perfection, statics and symmetry Midge, it is actually not so probable that Adam and Eve knew that 2x3=6. Linguists and anthropologists have studied how an-alphabetic groups perceive language. Amongst other discoveries, it seems reading is a necessity for a group to even develop mathematics. Prior to the arrival of the Europeans, aboriginal tribes in Australia had no written language and also no numbers! Words like "one" and "many" were sufficient. So indeed, it is possible to live and NOT know mathematics. At least it used to be
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 04-30-2010 at 03:34 AM. |
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04-30-2010, 06:41 AM | #22 | ||
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This quote, poetic though it may be:
Quote:
Quote:
[EDIT:I see Jonathan beat me to it.] Personally I think finding a perfect sphere in nature is more easily achieved than getting a horse and a narwhal (going on modern imagery of unicorns) produce offspring. Point is, I was pretty sure perfect spheres do exist in nature, but as I previously said, maths was never my forte, so what would I know? On the whole, I also find the last part, in which you compare maths to God and lists its shortcomings in that comparison, somewhat pointless. Nothing can compete with any god in the minds of their believers, which robs the comparison of any usefulness it might have had.
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05-01-2010, 12:11 AM | #23 |
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Ooo, that is intriguing. Of course, you REALLY don't want to think about the process ([ewewewewewewewew), but still . . . it would totally work.
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05-01-2010, 02:01 AM | #24 | |
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Quote:
Actually, my teacher does not require any specific sort of writing style or outline. I believe that it is good to state what you are going to argue before you argue it; otherwise the reader doesn't know how to approach your work. I have to disagree that the best essays are written like a story, for some essays (i.e. concerning math) require a more factual and systematic approach.
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Elleth Valatari "We have come from God, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil." — J.R.R. Tolkien |
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05-01-2010, 02:12 AM | #25 | |
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Quote:
About my comparison between math and God' redemption, the reason connected these ideas was to show both the pros and cons of math.
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Elleth Valatari "We have come from God, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil." — J.R.R. Tolkien |
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05-01-2010, 06:31 AM | #26 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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05-03-2010, 06:59 PM | #27 |
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The jump from talk about Math to something about a god just seemed like a total non-sequitur. Bertrand Russell would have balked.
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05-03-2010, 07:53 PM | #28 | |||
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Quote:
I'm a bit confused as to why you would quote something sheerly for the sake of critiquing it with another quote. Am I misunderstanding what you said? Quote:
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I say this with all respect, and I am sure you are quite intelligent both in general and for your age, but I think a problem is that you are approaching a topic which is too big for a 10ish paragraph paper, and that you are trying to make an argument about two topics which are extremely complex. From reading this paper, I have the impression that you do not know enough about how the two topics function to actually effectively make the argument you are making. I am not saying that in an attempt to discourage you, and I think it's great that you're learning to how to think through things and make arguments like this. But I think you would have more luck if you began with a topic that is somewhat more quantifiable and easily stepped into than how God and math relate . |
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05-03-2010, 10:00 PM | #29 | ||
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I agree with Comic Book Guy. If you want to understand any science at all then you must study math (for advanced science, go up to a basic calculus level at least).
In other words, this. If you want to be able to handle money with reasonable competence, understand the marketplace, and not get hosed on your mortgage, then you should probably take all the math levels in high school at the least and/or accounting. My husband is doing a business degree and they're going to make him take differential calculus. This isn't even a science degree, but it does have a lot to do with money and economics.
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05-03-2010, 11:37 PM | #30 |
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Just as a note, that's one of xkcd's best. And HI THERE! Haven't seen you in a while!
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05-04-2010, 06:11 AM | #31 |
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Every subject in the plant that we study involves maths, if there was no Maths, the world wouldn't have been made up to this standard. Maths if life
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05-04-2010, 07:04 PM | #32 | |
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Quote:
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Elleth Valatari "We have come from God, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil." — J.R.R. Tolkien |
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05-04-2010, 09:23 PM | #33 |
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Mathematical instruction is a grounding tool for the human species. Our biological existence is naturally disorganized and inconsistent, so we tend to look to look for consistencies to bind us better for day to day life. Math, like grammar, religion or morality, represents a structuring of human thought that allows us to surivive better as we mature.
In other words, it's the *doing* of math that what it is mostly about.
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05-04-2010, 09:49 PM | #34 | |
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Quote:
Either way, it's certainly a good explanation of why mathematics meshes with philosophy. Hello, by the way! Haven't seen you in a while.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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05-05-2010, 05:03 AM | #35 |
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I left high school with a failing grade for Maths and I can't say I ever felt that it was too bad that I just don't understand probabilities etc. I never needed it.
On the other hand, basic counting, adding, etc. is rather useful when I'm in a store or thinking out a budget for my next school year. However, this is elementary school level. I read the argument that MAths structures your thinking or something similar above a few times. What do you mean? I could never think at a Mathematical level, wrap my head around formulas etc., yet I can write a structured and thought out academic paper. I was taught how to do that in my Dutch classes. For me, any Math beyond elementary school holds nothing but torture.
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05-07-2010, 10:47 PM | #36 |
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/salute GW!
Mathematics is philosophy in its most simplified form. We take the most basic concepts we can perceive, define them as "one", and then go from there. Most of reality is trying to figure out exactly what the "one" is, and most of physics shows us that one plus one tends to be more or less than the sum of the parts. Math's structure is only the one we choose to give it. Mathematics is a reference point for our perception of reality, much like vision is the reflection of the small spectrum of colors that we can see with our eyes. It has meaning, but it's and extremely subjective one.
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10-02-2010, 07:17 PM | #37 | ||
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Mathematics is one branch of learning that is discovered, not invented. (Although mathematical notations and techniques are invented.) It is quite real: but we can neither see it nor touch it. We draw pictures of things happening in mathematics – graphs, for instance – but however accurate they may be, they are only pictures, not reality.
Jonathan mentioned earlier that (and I think this is a fair elision; Jonathan will correct me if he disagrees) Quote:
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Mathematics is a language, but not one made by men. We represent it with linguistic and artistic forms of our own devising, but we did not invent the truth that underlies it. For its beauty and utility alone, we can admire and study it; but there may be more to mathematics than we imagine. |
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10-07-2010, 01:07 AM | #38 |
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Why you all thinking too much. There is a very simple answer. The main reason for studying mathematics is that it is interesting and enjoyable.
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10-07-2010, 01:45 AM | #39 |
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Because thinking too much is interesting and enjoyable. Seriously, though, that's a good answer. I believe in doing things for their own sake. Welcome!
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 10-07-2010 at 01:47 AM. |
10-09-2010, 05:59 AM | #40 |
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Welcome Daisy!
Yes, that. Or sheer torture. >_<
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
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