04-18-2007, 03:00 PM | #581 | |
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04-18-2007, 03:41 PM | #582 | |
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 04-18-2007 at 03:44 PM. |
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04-18-2007, 04:14 PM | #583 |
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Maybe, but a good ten years back I distinctly remember seeing documentaries and at least one palentology exhibition where they treated the 'birds are dinosaurs' theory still as tentative. Only afterwards I've noticed the theory seemed to have become more commonly accepted.
Hm, it might be interesting looking into this. Making an excavation of old palentological theories. A century may be too long, though, I think. The term dinosaur was only coined 160 years ago. But on checking the famous archaeopteryx-fossil was discovered in 1861, so the basis for the theory has in any case indeed been long present. On briefly skimming the wikipedia article on it (gotta run, will read more attentively later) it looks like the theory was indeed put forward more than a century ago, but then largely forgotten, ignored or concidered incorrect until later which probably led to my faulty conclusion. Still, most of the fossils finds of bird-like dinosaurs that confirm the link are relatively recent.
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04-18-2007, 04:59 PM | #584 | |
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The description of evolution in Genesis is one of many, many amazing descriptions in Revelation and Genesis of things that man shouldn't have been able to know, that came to pass and are coming to pass, and are flawlessly described in those books. Revelation and Genesis make me bubble . From there I think we need to move on to the Theology Thread . . . I'm interested in chatting about a few more of those events! The ones in Revelation are pretty grim, but many of them are literally coming true. And a lot of the ones in Genesis have also been already proven by modern science.
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04-18-2007, 05:10 PM | #585 | |
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 04-18-2007 at 05:12 PM. |
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04-18-2007, 06:01 PM | #586 | |
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I think that the Bible's main purpose is not to give scientific information, which after all is only a small (and not the most important, by any means!) part of life - it's to give information on the heart
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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04-18-2007, 06:21 PM | #587 | ||||
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One could take the Norse passage as completely symbolic and probably come up with evolution, but that's nowhere near Genesis in direct, literal description of what took place. When you read that passage from Genesis, you can see immediately how it connects. You don't have to stretch it or push it about, as you clearly also agree, for you say that it "sure fits." Quote:
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One can take any prediction at all on faith, even if it has been scientifically shown to be inaccurate, so the fact that one can take this passage on faith if one wants to has nothing to do with its predictive quality. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-18-2007 at 06:23 PM. |
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04-19-2007, 01:47 AM | #588 |
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You can really give long replies to short posts Lief
My whole point is that the Bible's words "Let the land produce living creatures" neither support nor reject the theory of evolution. From these words, no one can draw the conclusion (predict) that there is such a thing as evolution. The passage would still give an equally good description of the world if the land produced animals that don't evolve.
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04-19-2007, 10:13 AM | #589 | |
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Just for starters. Thank goodness Genesis provides a basis for the 4 elements.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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04-19-2007, 10:36 AM | #590 |
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And here's a creation story that not only involves evolution, but species extinction.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/journals/mon/abudgen.htm
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
04-19-2007, 04:58 PM | #591 | ||||
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But whether your claim about that text is true or not, it wouldn't refute my point. If the Buddhists also correctly described scientific fact in their mythologies, that's really cool too . There are a lot of connections between the various religions, a lot of similarities. The question of why that is has been an ongoing debate for a long time. Quote:
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Lots of other myths don't portray the animals as created by the land. Genesis doesn't just say that God said poof, and they materialized out of nothing. Neither did they come fully formed out of tree stumps or out of a dragon's mouth. There are lots of myths out there that you'd have to interpret as purely symbolic to make them work, because they bear so little connection to science. The Creation account is very, very accurate to modern theory, though.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-19-2007, 05:07 PM | #592 | |
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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04-19-2007, 05:33 PM | #593 | |
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If you have a Bible at your house, I'd suggest that you compare the content of Genesis chapter 1 with those quotations. You won't find the four elements in Genesis (or anywhere in the Bible that I know of), and you'll find a lot of other differences too. Oh, and Jonathan, it's worthwhile to remember that at the time Genesis was written, there was a lot less scientific knowledge, and many people tried to explain scientific phenomenon through religious means. So consequently there were a lot of pretty outlandish myths out there that leaned heavily on the gods. The reference in Genesis to the land as the creative force of the animals is therefore all the more interesting.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-19-2007 at 05:36 PM. |
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04-19-2007, 05:40 PM | #594 | |
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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04-19-2007, 05:56 PM | #595 |
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It's a translation made by a very large, multi-denominational group of Biblical scholars, and taken from the earliest and most reliable Greek texts available. I don't know whether or not they also used the Hebrew- they may have. The translation is quite close to the other major Bible translations.
What translation do the quotes you quoted come from?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
04-20-2007, 01:52 AM | #596 | |
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1:25 God made (= said "poof" ) the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. This is no less peculiar than animals coming fully formed out of tree stamps or a dragon's mouth. Moreover, the whole making of "the wild animals according to their kinds" doesn't seem to fit well with the theory of evolution. And as for the "coming fully formed" thing, both Adam and Eve were created as adults, weren't they? And also, Genesis never said any thing about the sea-creatures or birds being produced by the land or anything. Here God seems to say poof again In adittion, according to modern theory birds evolved after land-living animals. It's the other way around in Genesis, with birds arising on the 5th day and land creatures on the 6th. I think this has been discussed in this thread or elsewhere before, but that was long ago. So in my mind, for the most part the Biblical creation myth isn't much more accurate than other myths when compared to modern science. Edit - since Sister didn't provide a source for her quotes (the links didn't seem to lead to the correct place), I googled a bit and came up with this link: http://www.js.emory.edu/BLUMENTHAL/GenIbnEzra.html That's just Genesis rewritten by Abraham Ibn Ezra. Wikipedia says he was a Medieval Jewish writer who was critical of the Bible. So any quotes by him are not to be found in Genesis. Those quotes are his own interpretations. Thanks Sister but next time, let it be your task to cite and explain your sources
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 04-20-2007 at 02:01 AM. |
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04-20-2007, 02:14 AM | #597 | ||
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In the rest of your post, you move beyond this single passage which I consider to be evidence for evolution, and to respond I must also move beyond evolution, so I'm moving to the Theology Thread. EDIT: By the way, I have now responded to you in the Theology Thread, though it may not look like it, because Entmoot looks to me like it's being a bit goofy. Not that that's a call for attention from the mods . Goofiness adds fun to life.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-20-2007 at 04:15 AM. |
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04-20-2007, 05:36 AM | #598 | |||
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Before I venture into the Theology thread, can we agree that Genesis can be intepreted in many ways - some ways that support the theory of evolution... and some that don't?
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04-20-2007, 10:54 AM | #599 | ||||
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But even if there was, the lack of specifics in the Genesis verse doesn't mean it isn't saying that those specifics occurred. You can take any history textbook and say that because it didn't mention some detail, it was saying that that detail didn't occur. But that's an absurd way of reading history textbooks. In the same way, it doesn't make sense to judge the Genesis account based on what it doesn't say. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-18-2008, 02:43 PM | #600 | |
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And the most important piece of information posited in the Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with the environment producing the species, which is an obvious given (you do not expect polar bears to live in the Amazon, you do not expect snakes to fly in the air), but the natural selection of the fittest. That's the end-game, and there's nothing in the Bible remotely close to predicting or describing natural selection.
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