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#101 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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More good news! Apparently the Sunnis turned out in droves in the election, definitely binding themselves into the political process.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4531904.stm
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#102 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#103 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#104 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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On the predictions thing, let's rehearse the argument that we were having three years ago. People like me were saying "thousands of innocents will die, there are no connections with terrorism, it will actually inspire terrorists not deter them, it will destabilise the country and region, there are no WMDs, there is no threat, there is no moral case for war". Which particular prediction did I get wrong? People like Dubya were saying whatever they needed to say to get people riled up and kill-crazy. And it was being dutifully swallowed and spewed out by "liberal" sources such as the BBC. As for the survey, it may well be true. If I was unemployed, walking around in my own sewage, with no running water and 2 hours a day of electricity, I would probably expect things to get better. What about the (comparatively methodologically rigorous) survey in the Lancet that put the number of civilian deaths attributable to the War at 98,000 in the first year? Nurv makes an excellent point, in that the country is so dangerous that we can't even get reliable reports upon which to assess the situation. Are we instead supposed to trust the "sources" that gave us a relentless diet of hogwash from the illusory WMDs to the Jessica Lynch charade? |
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#105 | ||||||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4525412.stm Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#106 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#107 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#108 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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how bout "NEED to to be CONSISTANT."
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#109 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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It's not the BBC I have a problem with, it's pretty much all journalists in Iraq right now.
Maybe journalists were reporting possible WMDs before it was discovered that the intelligence about WMDs was incorrect. Obviously no one is going to buy that now. Ballots are being counted today! Counting under way in Iraq election This story I can (mostly) believe because ballots will be counted in a safe area, so journalists will actually be there. (Not that I'm a little bitter about journalism in Iraq right now.) Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#110 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
![]() In addition, I should point out that Oxford Research International is not a part of Oxford University, but an independent firm, so the point is moot (as it were ![]()
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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#111 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#112 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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A couple more points of information
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If China had invaded the US with overwhelming firepower, and Americans fought a guerilla campaign to thwart attempts to normalise the situation, would you say the same? Quote:
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#113 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
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__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#114 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
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__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#115 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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70% of registered voters voted, and apparently, many also voted in insurgent dominated areas.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#116 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Quote:
But my point is that the "setting up democracy" argument was very much a post-hoc justification and not one, I think, which the American people would have supported as a sole reason for starting a war. |
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