08-29-2005, 04:04 PM | #961 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
08-29-2005, 04:12 PM | #962 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-29-2005, 04:12 PM | #963 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-29-2005, 04:20 PM | #964 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden
Posts: 9,481
|
The reason for the specific number of 6000 years is that in the bible they didn't know of any higher numerals. Multiply with 750 000 and you'll get the correct number of years for the age of the Earth.
Remember we're dealing with ancient people (who wrote the biblical stories) who had no concept of how the Solar System was created and grew and how the planets revolved around the Sun and not the Earth. |
08-29-2005, 04:20 PM | #965 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden
Posts: 9,481
|
The reason for the specific number of 6000 years is that in the bible they didn't know of any higher numerals. Multiply with 750 000 and you'll get the correct number of years for the age of the Earth.
Remember we're dealing with ancient people (who wrote the biblical stories) who had no concept of how the Solar System was created and grew and how the planets revolved around the Sun and not the Earth. |
08-29-2005, 04:21 PM | #966 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
(Guys, would you please keep evidence discussions over on the Evidence threads?)
Here's another thing about evolution that I think should be taught - I think it's important to know the scientific info that was available while Darwin was formulating his theory. One thing that I had mentioned before was the now-shown-to-be-false idea that use/disuse changes could be passed on to offspring. Another idea that was currently around at this time (and was shown to be false soon after by Pasteur) was spontaneous generation at the microbe level. One could certainly see that if those were the prevailing scientific ideas, that it's easier to come up with a theory like Darwin did.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-29-2005, 04:21 PM | #967 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
(Guys, would you please keep evidence discussions over on the Evidence threads?)
Here's another thing about evolution that I think should be taught - I think it's important to know the scientific info that was available while Darwin was formulating his theory. One thing that I had mentioned before was the now-shown-to-be-false idea that use/disuse changes could be passed on to offspring. Another idea that was currently around at this time (and was shown to be false soon after by Pasteur) was spontaneous generation at the microbe level. One could certainly see that if those were the prevailing scientific ideas, that it's easier to come up with a theory like Darwin did.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-29-2005, 04:23 PM | #968 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Not even an astronomer would say that.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-29-2005, 04:23 PM | #969 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Not even an astronomer would say that.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-29-2005, 04:31 PM | #970 | ||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Quote:
If you're asking me the "we can only look for naturalistic causes in science" concept is un-usable in science. And a concept I have yet to come across in my encounters with science. Nowhere in the books I've read on archaeology and natural history has it ever come up. I think Nurv (as she does always, it seems) explained my point better. Quote:
__________________
We are not things. |
||
08-29-2005, 04:38 PM | #971 | ||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Here's an example: taken from an interview of Jeffrey Dahmer, the mass murderer who killed and then ate children: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There are also evolutionists out there who are hard-core atheists; do you have problems with them? If not, why not? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
||||||||
08-29-2005, 04:38 PM | #972 | ||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Here's an example: taken from an interview of Jeffrey Dahmer, the mass murderer who killed and then ate children: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There are also evolutionists out there who are hard-core atheists; do you have problems with them? If not, why not? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
||||||||
08-29-2005, 05:00 PM | #973 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
Creationism has a hypothesis that we will see living beings replicating after their kind - and the evidence for this is absolutely staggering - mountains and mountains of it, observable over and over every day for years and years. Evolution REQUIRES that living beings will NOT reproduce after their kinds - and we do NOT see this. It is only inferred from fossil evidence - and there is more than one valid inference that can be made from the fossil evidence. Just because one BELIEVES that animal A came from animal B, and you find these two fossils, along with animal C that has some characteristics of both, does NOT mean that it DID happen. It's still just a belief. So I'm forced to give more weight to what we actually CAN observe, and frankly, I don't see the proposed mechanism (beneficial mutations) observed - in fact, I see the opposite - I see it supporting creationism's hypothesis VERY strongly!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
||
08-29-2005, 05:01 PM | #974 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
08-29-2005, 05:01 PM | #975 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
08-29-2005, 05:04 PM | #976 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Quote:
|
|
08-29-2005, 05:14 PM | #977 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Yes, yes, I know the difference. But since I was talking about considering something (I said proof in my original statement but it could go for evidence as well) conclusive, I don't think it matters whether I used proof or evidence.
__________________
We are not things. |
08-29-2005, 05:15 PM | #978 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It is of great importance, IMO, so I"ll try to explain. What I mean by "proof" would be things like this: "I think that if I take chemical A and chemical B and mix them together, I get chemical C and byproduct D - let's do it and check - *does experiment* yes, indeedy, we DO get those results! Let's do it multiple times, and let other scientists do it *this happens* yes, we ALL do get those same results!" To me, that would be on the level of proof. What I mean by "evidence" would be things like this: "I know that if I take chemical A and chemical B and mix them together, I get chemical C and byproduct D - well, we just dug up some stuff and I see chemical C and byproduct D, and I'm not aware of other ways to get those two things together, so the evidence is very strong that chemical A and chemical B were here, too, and got together and made chemical C and byproduct D. However, since it happened in the past, and there are other ways to get chemical C and byproduct D, and perhaps even other ways that we haven't discovered yet, we can only guess that that's what happened."
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|||
08-29-2005, 05:19 PM | #979 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-29-2005, 05:24 PM | #980 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I mean, that new species have DNA?! They actually propose that finding a new species that didn't have DNA would be a falsifiable check? Why don't I propose that if my son turns into a football that I would believe in macroevolution. Talk about safe bets! But that the kind of behavior one expects from true believers.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Evidence for Evolution | jerseydevil | General Messages | 599 | 05-18-2008 02:43 PM |
How to teach evolution & Evidence for Creationism II | Nurvingiel | General Messages | 528 | 08-05-2006 03:50 AM |
Evidence for Creationism and Against Evolution | RÃan | General Messages | 1149 | 08-16-2004 06:07 PM |