03-07-2005, 10:14 PM | #201 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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03-07-2005, 10:18 PM | #202 |
The Intermittent One
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i admire the shamanistic religions of northen asia and the americas greatly
there are some interesting paralleles between these and the religions of central and southern asia, taoism, shinto, hinduism and buddhism |
03-08-2005, 01:37 AM | #203 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I get tired of the false accusations that I believe in creationism because I believe in Christianity. This thread is primarily about scientific aspects of creationism and evolutionism, altho philosophical aspects about BOTH are relevant and will also come up. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 01:50 AM | #204 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Here are some American Indian creation stories... Quote:
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03-08-2005, 01:52 AM | #205 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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This is the story that I was reminded of - because LCoU mentioned the turtle.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-08-2005, 02:04 AM | #206 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Here's a creation story that I sometimes hear, usually discussed in tones of reverence and awe, and often fiercely defended beyond any rational reason, as some (not all) believers will defend their faith : Somehow simple life started on earth. This life, thru an amazing, non-directed sequence of beneficial mutations and survival of the fittest, underwent amazing changes and yielded all the life we see on our planet today!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 02:07 AM | #207 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 02:12 AM | #208 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-08-2005, 02:13 AM | #209 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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To finish up the last few little points -
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And finally - if you're interested, re-read my summary posts that are linked to on the first page. When discussing evidence for creationism, you will NOT find any belief-based statements. You will find scientific discussion of evidence. That's all. NOW - moving on to the comment on the simulation ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 02:15 AM | #210 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And please see my post immediately following yours where I describe my studies of evolution and how I thought evolution was true even when I was a Christian.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 02:18 AM | #211 | ||
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The problem with the monkey simulation (and the eye simulation you'll see in sites like talkorigins) is this : There is a goal. Let me repeat - there is a goal. I can absolutely guarantee, and I would bet my very life on it, that somewhere in the program there is that Shakespeare line that the SIMULATED monkeys eventually come up with. Guaranteed. And the thing about the theory of evolution, as it is currently taught in mainstream education, is that there are no goals. There are NO goals! There is only chance and survival of the fittest. Mutations, beneficial or otherwise, do not mutate with a goal in mind (IOW, they don't think "If I make this mutation go this certain way, then we're one step further along towards eventually making a human!"). Natural selection, or survival of the fittest, does NOT operate with a goal in mind (IOW, there is no being directing animals towards a predator because they won't further the goal of making a human - the predator will just catch whoever it can catch!) And I guarantee you that this computer simulation had a goal - the sentence of Shakespeare that was eventually "typed". See, the simulation had to work like this : 1. Generate a random sequence of keystrokes (and btw, IIRC, it was exactly the same length as the Shakespeare sentence - another instance of a goal being in place!) 2. If a new keystroke MATCHES THE GOAL of the letter in the Shakespeare sentence in the right place, then KEEP IT! If it does NOT match THE GOAL, then make it subject to change the next round. 3. Repeat step 2 UNTIL THE GOAL is met. ALL this simulation does is prove that if you have a GOAL, and allow changes to letters that do not meet the GOAL, then eventually, given enough time and the letters in the GOAL available, you will meet the GOAL. No news here!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 02:22 AM | #212 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-08-2005, 02:25 AM | #213 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-08-2005, 02:30 AM | #214 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-08-2005, 02:42 AM | #215 | ||
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[Edited by azalea -- off-topic]
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 02:53 AM | #216 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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[edited by azalea -- off topic/ personal]
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I have such a high regard for truth. I don't care if I come across questions or ideas that might conflict with my faith. If they are valid questions, then I seriously and carefully think about them. I'm not in this thread, where I quite often get ridiculed and misrepresented, to win a debate. I'm in this thread because, as I said, it just galls my integrity and my regard for the truth to think that some people think that certain aspects of evolution are PROVEN, instead of merely EXTRAPOLATED. And any person with a fair amount of exposure to math can explain the dangers of extrapolation, let alone interpolation! And the degree of extrapolation is SO immense that it's even scarier to think about! I mean, we're talking - what? - several thousand years of data, and BILLIONS of years of extrapolation?!?! Considering the lack of evidence and the degree of extrapolation, I just can't swallow evolution (the macroevolution part) with any degree of integrity, when IMO the ACTUAL data points the other way.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 03:00 AM | #217 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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[quote] [quote]Your problem is that you HAVE to fit your belief in with your belief with god. Quote:
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Rian Rian Rian - we've gone over this for 2 years. I've seen your many posts. I see where you bring pieces of data and quote various "scientific" sites which end up actually being religious in origin and all while ignoring the evidence that contradicts it. Two years ago - I kept asking you to provide sites that weren't religious in nature to defend creationism - and your answer was basically that evolution is basically an atheist science and why shouldn't you be able to use religious scientists to back up your claims. And as I answered then - because a scientist should leave their religion at the door when they walk into a lab. You didn't like that answer then - adn I know you won't like it now. Evolution isn't about athiesm - it's about looking for the SCIENTIFIC proof of where we came from.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-08-2005, 03:00 AM | #218 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'd just like to officially note that down here. You refuse to believe what I say, even tho I say it over and over. Why, then, should I believe what YOU say? I think that I must decline to believe what YOU say at this point, until you agree to believe what I say. That's really the only thing I can see to do at this point . Do you have any other suggestions (that are fair! ) Quote:
And you can't separate out the non-directedness from evolutionISM.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-08-2005, 03:03 AM | #219 | |
Mootis per forum
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
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03-08-2005, 03:12 AM | #220 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Evolution involves an unproven and unproveable belief that macro-evolutionary changes happened. We don't KNOW this, yet evolutionists cling to this belief.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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