05-26-2005, 04:19 PM | #101 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Quote:
0,5% also sounds so terribly flimsy that you wonder why we 'give' so little, until you hear what amount of money that in reality is....
__________________
We are not things. |
|
05-26-2005, 04:22 PM | #102 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
...compare it to ours and it's even smaller.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-26-2005, 04:36 PM | #103 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Spock, are you talking about the percentage or the total amount?
If you're talking about the percentage, I'm curious. How much do you lot give? If you're talking about the total amount of money, well duh, you probably have cities bigger than half my country.
__________________
We are not things. |
05-26-2005, 04:37 PM | #104 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
|
hmm, 10 times as many people live in new york compared to london, and new york's population is a tenth of the total population of uk, so new york's population accounts for 0.1% of the total globe!!
|
05-26-2005, 04:57 PM | #105 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Total amount in dollars.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-26-2005, 05:00 PM | #106 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
..it's just that "over there" is always criticizing us for what we give and we give tremendously from private and government. The fact that we're bigger, etc. doesn't mean we HAVE to give.
|
05-26-2005, 05:12 PM | #107 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Always, always... And always we get that sort of generalising...
__________________
We are not things. |
05-26-2005, 05:13 PM | #108 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Quote:
I can't help it if we do give more and you think it is generalizing; it is a fact. The U.S. foreign-aid budget as a percentage of gross national product (GNP) ranks last among the world’s wealthiest countries (at about 0.1 percent). In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid. In 2001, the United States gave $10.9 billion dollars. so manipulating the data, something we learned in math class all those years ago, you can make a case for your argument; unfortunately the total facts wash it away.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 05-26-2005 at 05:22 PM. |
|
05-27-2005, 03:46 AM | #109 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quote:
However, you do make an important point, in that people in all countries give a lot privately. I doubt whether this is included in the proportion of GDP statistic. Bill Gates, for example, probably gives more as an individual to the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisation than many countries do in all types of aid. My intention with the question was to discuss whether it is a good thing (this 0.5% target) whether it's likely to be achieved, and other issues. I didn't want to suggest "we're better than you", and it's slightly depressing that it was interpreted that way. Sometimes it seems that certain questions cannot be asked without being interpreted as an attack. |
|
05-27-2005, 10:50 AM | #110 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
[QUOTE=The Gaffer]Illogical, Mr Spock. By that token, one could argue that the rich should pay a lower rate of tax, because they're paying a larger total amount.
It is not illogical, it is fact. Any math teacher worth his decimal points will tell you that. An arbitrary figure for giving is moot when the existing giving already is as great as it is, IMO. Attacking us is so routine, one sees it sometimes when it is not meant. If this is the case, I appologize.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-27-2005, 11:57 AM | #111 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
Yet in a way Spock, you would expect America to pay more, because of it's larger population. If you took to collections, one with 100 people and another with 10, you'd expect the one from 100 people to have raised more.
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
05-27-2005, 12:09 PM | #112 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Hutspah Personified
Quote:
---------------------------------------------------- "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; The inherent virture of socialism is the equal sharing of misery." - Sir Winston Churchill Last edited by Spock : 05-27-2005 at 12:49 PM. |
|
05-27-2005, 12:23 PM | #113 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quite.
Here's why I think it's a good idea: 1) By targeting a proportion of national income for aid we raise its profile in political discussions. 2) Rich countries are rich largely because of how they exploited the natural resources of the world as a whole, including developing countries. We have a moral duty to share it around. 3) We have a moral duty to help our fellow humans anyway. 4) There is good evidence that aid is most effective when it is channelled directly to developing countries' budgets. That in turn is most efficient and effective when it comes out of government budgets. 5) By funding aid from central taxation, donors are accountable to their population as whole for how it is spent, and not to interest groups. |
05-27-2005, 12:27 PM | #114 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Two, of several, terms that are overused by the p.c. crowd: "exploited" and "moral duty".
especially when it's applied to the USA |
05-27-2005, 12:28 PM | #115 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
I take your incessant snide remarks to indicate that you have nothing intelligent to contribute on the issue.
|
05-27-2005, 12:32 PM | #116 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
hold on, you're treading on thin ice, this isn't about you and your opinions it is about voicing opinions of everyone in the discussion.
It is not incessant to rebut that which is being discussed. It is not snide, which is defined as "malicious or derisive", to state facts and or one's opinion based upon life experience or facts.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 05-27-2005 at 12:34 PM. Reason: warning for post-close to flaming |
05-27-2005, 12:42 PM | #117 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
OK, your position is that it's the total amount that matters, not the percentage. (Or is it? You haven't actually said as such)
You have yet to explain why that should be so. I have explained why I think the percentage matters. I should also add that these people desperately need it. You're the one who's on thin ice if you think Quote:
Quote:
|
||
05-27-2005, 12:43 PM | #118 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
I think that aid should be a concern of all governments and not a function of the G-8 or whatever number they are up to now. Governments responsibility is to the people of their country -first- then they can parcel out aid. To put a percentage or a dollar amount on this because of any socialized wording, is wrong, IMO.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-27-2005, 01:54 PM | #119 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
Quote:
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
|
05-27-2005, 01:58 PM | #120 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Apparently it bears repeating
[QUOTE=Telcontar_Dunedain]Yes, I, and most other people, do expect America to give more in aid
see my post you refer to, there is no right to expect, only a hope or desire, yet peoples have come to expect and that is what I object to
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Iran and Iraq-problems-outlook-discussion | brownjenkins | General Messages | 208 | 05-27-2008 12:45 PM |
Beyond the circles of the world | Sister Golden Hair | Middle Earth | 2 | 09-26-2003 09:44 AM |
The Conspiracies! (TOC vs. DC!) | Duddun | RPG Forum | 321 | 01-22-2003 07:17 PM |
The Entmoot Presidential Debate | Darth Tater | Entmoot Archive | 163 | 12-06-2002 09:44 PM |
I made a song!!!!! | StrawberryIcecream | Lord of the Rings Books | 999 | 08-11-2002 01:58 AM |