03-24-2005, 09:07 PM | #341 | |||||
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I mean, as long as people are kind and they feel sincere about it, then that's more important than why they feel it's right to be kind. One of these two statements should make sense. My goodness. Clarification will be provided upon request.
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03-24-2005, 09:09 PM | #342 | ||
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sidenote - heard you're going to stockholm.
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03-24-2005, 09:19 PM | #343 | |
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I'm still trying to download MSN - will have to get to your questions later. Keep reminding me! wait - Please PM me your msn handle again - I think I"m ready to try it!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-24-2005, 09:21 PM | #344 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-24-2005, 09:29 PM | #345 |
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*sigh*
Why don't people make objections when Buddhism says it's good to be kind? go figure! got to get some dinner going - see ya'll later
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-24-2005, 09:30 PM | #346 | |||||
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(BTW, did you see my comment about that I don't try to be PC? This actually was important to me when I was 14, but I'm 1.5 times older now and it just doesn't matter anymore. )
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-24-2005, 09:31 PM | #347 | |
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03-24-2005, 09:42 PM | #348 |
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what you said reminded me of what some people have said to me before when talking about the Bible - things along the lines of "why should some book tell me what to do?!" Yet when I hear people talk about beliefs like Buddhism, I don't tend to hear objections along those lines - I usually hear, "Oh, that's so beautiful what it says!"
I don't understand the difference.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-24-2005, 10:36 PM | #349 | |
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-24-2005, 10:51 PM | #350 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-24-2005, 11:21 PM | #351 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-24-2005, 11:26 PM | #352 | |
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(aren't we a riot?!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-25-2005, 08:21 AM | #353 | ||||||
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I could build the Eiffel tower out of the irony. I will probably never mis-spell 'congratulations' again. Quote:
(Y'know, it would be easier to quote you if you had just added that to your last post. ) Quote:
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I think one reason people (in Western society anyway) don't criticize Buddhism is because we don't really know anything about it. We know that we don't know. With Christianity, a lot of people do know something about it, enough to disagree with something or make a comment about it. This does bring up problems though since Christians are a highly diverse group of people. Many Christians, for example, don't practice submission. I think JD is the exception since he actually did look into Buddhism (and other religions). I think, happily, that people are usually not inclined to criticize a religion about which they know nothing. But if you've done some research you could find points where you disagree with the religion's teachings. In this thread though, I don't see a problem, since we're discussion the idea of Biblical submission, regardless of who holds the belief.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-28-2005, 05:49 PM | #354 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-29-2005, 08:44 PM | #355 |
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So I can only think of one more question - it was something along the lines of "why is the man the head?"
I guess I would answer that if there are two, and they are both wonderfully and uniquely designed as men and women, and are equally important, than ONE has to be the head and is designed better for it, and it happens to be the man. And as I said, sometimes the woman might be the better leader! In fact, very often, given this fallen world! But I think our goal in life should NOT be to do whatever is easiest - it should be to do what we think is right. I think it would be better for all concerned in these cases for the man to strive to learn to be the leader, and the woman to submit as he demonstrates leadership. And again, IMO she does NOT submit to anything she KNOWS is against God's word, such as lying to cover up something. From what I've seen, many objections go along the lines of that this concept is somehow belittling to a woman. I guess I just don't see it that way. I have NO problem with believing that I am just as good as any man In fact, I believe that I am BETTER than men in some areas, and they are better than me in some areas, and that makes a POWERFUL combination when we get together! I have no problem with God assigning these roles because IMO He cares for men and women equally. We are called "co-heirs". To me, life is amazing and people are incredible! Why complain when we've received such an amazing gift as life and the many blessings that go with it? It's like what Chesterton says about how he can't understand those who complain about being sexually faithful to one woman - "Keeping to one woman is a small price for so much as seeing one woman."
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-31-2005, 05:01 PM | #356 | |||||||
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I still don't see why there needs to be one leader. I see marriage as an equal partnership of those involved. I still disagree with your emphasis on gender roles as well, but we both probably have equal evidence. It is quite hard to know exactly how much is biology, and how much is the influence of society. Quote:
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Our two areas of contention, which will probably never be resolved since a lot depends on your own experiences etc. are: 1. Why shouldn't marriage be an equal partnership? 2. Why such a strong emphasis on gender roles? It does not appear to serve any useful purpose. Sorry to bludgeon you to death with these 2 questions, but I'm just not getting the point of Biblical submission. Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 03-31-2005 at 05:14 PM. Reason: spelling |
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04-01-2005, 12:55 PM | #357 |
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Nurv,
"Our two areas of contention, which will probably never be resolved since a lot depends on your own experiences etc. are: 1. Why shouldn't marriage be an equal partnership? 2. Why such a strong emphasis on gender roles? It does not appear to serve any useful purpose." partnership - business arrangement model marriage marriage, Christian - covenant model gender - biological differences due to chromosomal distribution and expression gender roles - social functions assigned variously to identified genders Marriage will never succeed as an equal partnership UNLESS both parties are willing to give 100% of themselves (desires, goals, aspirations, physical selves) to each other. Check your Prayer Book at Marriage and see that the institution of marriage 1) is a covenant, 2) symbolic of Christ and the Church, 3) to honored among all people, and 4) mutual for joy, help, support, and procreation (when it is God's will). Note the vows et alia. Gender roles are societally defined and vary quite a bit. My personal favorite is the one where the husband gets to bed down with the baby to finish the hatching while the wife goes back out to finish planting rice in the fields immediately postpartum. Is this what you had in mind? (I rather doubt it, but I could be in error.) Gender is the consequence of chromosomal expression. There is unavoidable difference in that. And it must be real because it is in the genes, right? Actually proven to be in the genes and different. So much so that there is X for female and Y for male in the addition to the X every person carries. SO THERE MUST BE SOMETHING TO GENDER deeper than the skin you see expressing it! (Based on multiple arguments on mutliple threads by multiple people here on the 'Moot !) SO IT MUST SERVE A PURPOSE if only to allow me to point it out to you! (A very noble purpose, that! ) In truth, every team has a leader. Every leader has assistants. Every team has differences of opinions. Some teams argue. Some teams break up. Some teams have a submission model ahead of time. In point of fact, all teams have a submission model. It's called the hierarchy of social groupings. A dyad is a group of two. It has a hierarchy also. Can't help it, just does. Turns out that Christians have a common vision of what that means: mutual submission and final responsibility to the husband when such is required. Most couples in fact work it out on the mutual basis with concessions on either side. Submission is not dominant to inferior 100% of the time (which seems to be your take). It is laying aside self-interest for the good of the couple and may be practised equally. (It is distasteful to modern western sensibility to even consider self-denial in any form.) Live & learn!
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04-01-2005, 01:08 PM | #358 | |||||||
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My only real issue with gender roles is when people feel they have to conform. I think people should be able to decide which ones suit them, or which ones suit their marriage. Quote:
I wasn't saying that every difference between men and women is actually made my society, I just think a lot are, or some blend between biology and society. I also think it's quite hard to tell when biology's influence ends, and where society's begins. Quote:
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04-06-2005, 05:53 PM | #359 | ||
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Actually Inked, I think you could accurately say two married people are partners. Why not?
*sneaky bump*
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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04-06-2005, 05:59 PM | #360 |
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sneaking? sneaking? very nice, oh yes, to poor smeagol, we shows them secret paths and they say sneak!
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