10-27-2004, 12:59 AM | #521 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-27-2004, 01:10 AM | #522 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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10-27-2004, 01:26 AM | #523 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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I have seen some great documentaries recently. Bush's Brain (about Karl Rove) and just today Rumsfeld's War (on PBS internet broadcast on 10/28 at PBS Online). The War on Terror is so complex Bush has delegated it all to Rumsfeld so as to focus on the more important issue... re-election, because Rove told him so. One Republican US Senator (RI) just announced that he was voting for Kerry. The worst periods of our government in the twentieth century have occurred when one party controlled all three branches. Democracy works best when the checks and balances force actions to have a greater consensus. As far as an orator Kerry is good but not Clinton or Reagan good. It's the contrast with the Bush blathering, whining, twitching, pacing, and grimacing that makes Kerry look so much better. I would just enjoy having a president that didn't sound as though he just fell of a hay wagon for a few years. It's been a while...
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-27-2004, 01:30 AM | #524 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Americans I think are getting laxed - thinking that terroristm really isn't that bad because we haven't been attacked in 3 years. People also seem to forget the many terrorist attacks the US suffered under Clinton's adminstration - which only received lukewarm response. As for the comment regarding the terrorist alerts. So let's see - Pan Am supposedly knew that there was a bomb threat against flight 103 - huge outcry that they didn't report it. People bitch that there was no public warning regarding the possible attack against the World Trade Center. Can you imagine if the government has a shred of information about something - doesn't tell the public and something DOES happen. People bitch and moan both ways - Bush can't win. He's damned if warnings are issued and he'll be damned if they aren't and something happens. Anyone who doesn't think that there is a possiblity of an attack before or during the election - has their head in the sand. How many of the warnings have been stopped by intelligence? We don't know - because most of that is classified information. If people demanded the amount of information we do today during World War II - we would never have succeeded on D-Day.
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10-27-2004, 01:44 AM | #525 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I also hardly consider congress being controlled by Republicans when it is so evenly split. Bush has hardly been handed things on a silver platter - except when MANY democrats have also supported things. Quote:
It's sort of funny - how long as their been a bush for palestian and israeli peace? There might not be peace - but who would havbe thought that Israeli would vote and approve dismantling all the gaza strip settlements without having any guarantees from the palestians? You know - Bush has been pushing Sharon on this as well as other things.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-27-2004 at 01:46 AM. |
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10-27-2004, 01:45 AM | #526 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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Sorry, but I grew up during the cold war with 40,000 nuclear missles pointed at me. Hard to get too frightened by these ragtag band of rejects. Things that kill more people than terrorism: Cancer Criminal gun use in the domestic US AIDS Auto Accidents Cigarettes Alcohol earthquakes food poisoning starvation abortion influenza illegal drugs suicide pollution diabetes I'm sure there are others I've missed. Running around invading every country that might be involved in terrorism or is in some way some kind of vague or peceived (incorrectly or not) is moronic. It will destroy our military readiness and plunge the country into debt. We may as well just nuke countries rather than put them through what Saddam and the Bushs have put Iraq through.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-27-2004, 01:51 AM | #527 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-27-2004 at 01:59 AM. |
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10-27-2004, 02:14 AM | #528 | ||||||
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-27-2004, 02:19 AM | #529 | ||
Elven Warrior
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Now, tell me that you know more about the Irish Troubles then I do. Quote:
And Europe survived long before your country even existed, and it will survive long after. The west will fall... Come on. Even Shakespeare wasn't that melodramatic.
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Audaces fortuna juvat Last edited by Fenir_LacDanan : 10-27-2004 at 02:21 AM. |
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10-27-2004, 02:21 AM | #530 | |
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ć Ć” Ć« ?* Ć³ Ćŗ Ć© Ƥ ĆÆ Ć¶ Ć Ć± Ć Ć Ć° Ć Ā® ā¢ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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10-27-2004, 02:25 AM | #531 | |||
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-27-2004, 02:31 AM | #532 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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More Americans killed where? You mean more than the US Embassies (we had 2 or 3 bombed during Clinton's Admin), you mean more than the US Cole being bombed (which under any other circumstances would have been an act of war). Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-27-2004, 02:38 AM | #533 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Can you imagine a world today where the Soviet Union had gained countrol over all the oil of the middle east during the 80's? yeah - it was about oil - and preserving the FREE flow of it.There isn't anything wrong with saying it, there isn't anything wrong with that. This today however isn't about oil (except to keep it out of the hands of al qaeda). The Middle East needs to be changed to prevent terrorism - period. Iraq is a key part of the puzzle. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-27-2004 at 02:48 AM. |
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10-27-2004, 02:57 AM | #534 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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So tell me - is Clinton Hitler? We went into Bosnia. So what was Meloshivic doing that hurt America? What interest did we have there? What interest did France, Britain, Germany, Russia, etc have there? Where was the UN resolution that allowed us to go in there? It was a civil war - if you want to denounce Bush - then denounce that - because we had no business going in there. Now I supported Clinton on that. See unlike liberals with Bush - I can support things that Clinton did. I don't agree with many things Clinton did though - but I will state what I agreed with him on.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-27-2004 at 03:00 AM. |
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10-27-2004, 02:59 AM | #535 | |||
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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So, where is Bin Laden anyway? It's ironic that Saddam can get health care paid for by American tax dollars but millions of citizens of the US can't. Quote:
There was an excellent documentary on Bush and Kerry on PBS. Kerry is shown on a CSPAN clip in July 2002 saying he would vote for the war resolution because Saddam needed to be contained but he was concerned about the lack of international cooperation, and the lack of a coherent plan to with the peace. Verbatim what he said in the debates 2 years later. He hasn't changed position and the flip-flop accusation is just a character smear tactic. Bush lied outright about Kerry 's vote on the homeland security bill, and since it passed 98-0 it would be hard to claim he may have forgotten. Then he will turn around and accuse Kerry of "being someone who will say anything to get elected." What a hypocrite.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-27-2004, 03:15 AM | #536 |
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I came across this article today. I know we have both supporters of Bush and Kerry (and most probably of third parties too) here on the Entmoot, do the conclusions of this article reflect what you notice around you or is it totally off?
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10-27-2004, 03:24 AM | #537 | ||||
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Do you remember our discussion prior to the war about possible outcomes. I said the best defense Saddam could choose would be to send his troops home with as many weapons as they could and wage an asymmetrical war. If I could think of that why couldn't the pentagon? Oh right, some of them did and got fired for disagreeing with Rumsfeld's Invasion Lite view of the war. Quote:
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-27-2004, 03:26 AM | #538 | |||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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As for lack of international cooperation - sometimes we have to take things on ourselves - if the world isn't going to come along. I'm not going to put our national security into the hands of the likes of the UN or France. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-27-2004, 03:39 AM | #539 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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I can only guess that this poll is dated since the final report about WMDs came out recently. It's possible people would be in denial since no one wants their "guy" to be so very wrong. The fact that the media pounded the acronym "WMD" into our heads for two years might have something to do with it. Many we should have been more worried about the weapons of regular-sized destruction. (WRDs)
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-27-2004, 03:53 AM | #540 | ||||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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BTW - there was a study done about media bias. ABC - which I watch the most of in terms of network news - had the most negative coverage toward Bush, CBS surprisingly had the least negative coverage of Bush (which I never watch), while FOX was actually the most even in their coverage. If this study is true and I watch ABC the most - then if I am blinded by my media source - wouldn't I hate Bush? Or might it be that I get my news from a cross section of political spectrums, have analysed the data and have come up with my own conclusions. I support bush on one thing and only one thing matters to me in this election and that is terrorism. That is NOT restricted to just capturing bin Ladin - but changing the middle east to prevent future bin ladins down the road. This will take time and WILL NOT and CAN NOT be done in 4 years or maybe not even in 10 years. It will be long and hard - that's a fact.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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