Tons of Weapons Disappear

[Insidious Rex]

What the heck just happened in Iraq! 380 TONS of explosives "slipped" through the hands of the coalition forces and into the hands of the insurgents?! How could that happen! Is no one else appaled by this? Why exactly is it we were firing military leaders who said we needed more troops when we cant even guard a known weapons stockade? Im still in a daze over this story. Is it really true that we lost THAT many explosives? Please tell me they just moved it and forgot where they put it. Someone told me just a couple pounds of these explosives could be responsible for your average road side bomb. and now they have 380 TONS!!? They will be doing bombings till the 25th century at that rate.

[BeardofPants]

*smacks head against desk* Great. They can't FIND Saddam's WMDs, and now they've managed to "lose" an arsenal of explosives?!

[Valandil]

This IS really bad! I hope we hear more about it.

Some small part of me hopes they were actually rigged to go off at some point and that we... oops! somehow let our guard down and they were stolen... but that would be delusional.

I agree that our forces were too small. I truly wish some more countries would get some troops in there to help out, for the good of Iraq and the world - unfortunately, it seems they'd rather spite the US than work for what is best.

Rumsfeld seems to have held notions about doing 'more with less' for a long time. I read an article some time before 9/11 about his plans for downsizing US forces and upping the technology level.

I wonder how you DO go about planning these things such that you 'cover all the bases' with your troops. It's a rough situation for the US now too... because we seem to have problems covering all the bases, we're already over-taxing our reservists (good luck getting people into the reserves for the next 20 years!) and extending tours of duty of those already there. It's a tough thing...

[Draken]

hey it's easily done. I lost a thousand pounder once. An inert one, I hasten to add.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Draken

hey it's easily done. I lost a thousand pounder once. An inert one, I hasten to add.

Really?!?! And you're just one guy! If you can't keep better track of YOUR stuff, I guess that helps explain it!

[Draken]

Well it hit the target at a funny angle and sort of flew over the sand trap instead of into it. Headed off toward the shore and buried itself in the beach. The sand was so fine it filled in the impact straight away so we couldn't find it. It's still there I think.

So you see it's easily done!

[Insidious Rex]

Then maybe we should have burried all these explosives in the Iraqi sand since we clearly werent able to gaurd it...

[Wayfarer]

This of course begs the question... Where can I get some? ];)

[jerseydevil]

So can anyone say when the weapons went missing? Because so far that seems to be the question. I like how right away BoP comes out with...

They can't FIND Saddam's WMDs, and now they've managed to "lose" an arsenal of explosives?!

Or IR's

What the heck just happened in Iraq! 380 TONS of explosives "slipped" through the hands of the coalition forces and into the hands of the insurgents?!

The thing is it didn't "just happen". It is VERY possible that the weapons were moved before the war, that they were looted soon after the war ended or at any time. As I have said - people here give the UN the benefit of the doubt or a free pass on things (such as the oil for food scandal) - but bitch about Bush and blame him before anything is even KNOWN.

[Rían]

amazing how quickly Kerry came out with a commercial on it ... talk about acting without proof! If your proof is going to be the NY Times, how can you slam someone whose proof was security briefings from several top agencies around the world?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

amazing how quickly Kerry came out with a commercial on it ... talk about acting without proof! If your proof is going to be the NY Times, how can you slam someone whose proof was security briefings from several top agencies around the world?

well not only that - but it's been admitted that this is old news. This was out there in the media roughly 18 months ago. Only just this past couple of days did the NY Times and CBS - known supporters of Kerry - decide to dig it back up. So again - IR's comment that it just happened is incorrect.

[osszie]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

amazing how quickly Kerry came out with a commercial on it ... talk about acting without proof!

Very true.....nobody in a position of power should act without proof, especially if explosive devices are going to be involved......

380 tons? Don't like the sound of that much......certainly wouldn't like to think I was a lil' soldier running around Iraq if people can illicitly get there hands on that kinda stuff so easy

How many trucks does it take to shift that amount of stuff anyway?

[The Gaffer]

Hi everybody...

Just thought I'd add that it's not just any old explosive, 1 kilo is enough to level a building.

I don't think we should be surprised. Who knows what stuff has been hastily flogged over the past couple of years?

Ba'athist: "Hell, the Americans are coming, we'd better flush this stuff down the bog."
Terrorist: "No worries, we'll take it off your hands for a bargain price. What's your Swiss bank account number?"

Just another reason why the Iraq war has, IMO, made the world a more dangerous place.

[Khamûl]

Originally Posted by osszie

How many trucks does it take to shift that amount of stuff anyway?

I did a little research and here's some calculations done for you by someone with more time on their hands than I.

__________________________________________________

Unfortunately for the New York Times, no one gave a thought about the logistics of the notion that small bands of insurgents made off with 380 tons of explosives under the noses of the Coalition with no one noticing. CQ reader and retired Army Reserve Captain Ian Dodgson got paid to think about logistics, and he did some "cocktail-napkin" math that escaped the geniuses at the Paper of Record:

We're familiar with the NY Times story and the IAEA accusations that the "missing" explosives were looted from the Al-Qaqaa military base due to US negligence in securing the facility.

If I were a guerilla "looter" and I was planning such an operation from a military standpoint, here's what the task would require:

Assumptions:

-Each "looter" could haul comfortably about 25 pounds per trip to a truck. (of course after 12 hours that would require superhuman endurance)

-I'd allow 5 minutes per round trip to the truck

-Work day 12 hours

-assume security breaks down 1 week after war starts (that allows 2
weeks before the US troops arrive)

-each pickup truck can carry about 1/4 ton of explosives (I did a quick calculation based upon the dimensions and weight of a block of C-4 and the dimensions of an average small pickup) and it takes 15 minutes to either load or unload the truck.

-the secure hiding place for 380 tons of explosives is 30 minutes away.

Calculations:

-380 tons / [((12hrs/dayX60min/hr) / (5 min per load)) X (25 lbs per load) X 14 days] = 15 loaders X 2 = 30 loaders/unloaders

-30 loaders/unloaders times 200% for breaks, rest, inefficiency, etc. = 60 loaders and unloaders.

-380 tons / [(12hrs/day / 1 hr/round trip,load,unload) X (.25 tons per trip) X 14 days] = 10 trucks and drivers X 1.5 (contingency) = 15 trucks and drivers.

-4 trucks + 10-15 men to supply water, food and other logistical
requirements

Total = 19-20 trucks, 90 men working continuously for two weeks to "loot" facility.

Bottom line this operation would take the resources of AN ENTIRE COMPANY (approx. 100 men) OVER TWO WEEKS, good Intel to know exactly where the "right" explosives were hidden and a means of breaching huge steel doors and concrete of an ASP.

And all of this would have to be done in an area with numerous intel overflights that would be looking for exactly this kind of activity in the combat zone, and not get noticed at all. Like so much of what the New York Times, CBS, and the Kerry campaign feeds us ... it just doesn't add up.

__________________________________________________

I just copied and pasted the whole article, but if anyone wants the link, here it is. http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/...ves/002869.php

[Insidious Rex]

Then why, prey tell, has the pentagon brass themselves been saying hey we cant guard everything. we dont know enough about this. well have to look into it further. why havent they been screaming IT WASNT US! from the very beginning then like some people here are? All i know is i heard the reports like everyone else and the idea of 380 tons of major explosives falling into the hands of the insurgants was enough to really give me some concern. maybe to others its just an opportunity for spin but to me its something we DO need to worry about. please feel free to disagree though.

[Nurvingiel]

I was thinking a bit about the logistics. Those calculations are awesome.

What if the looting (if there was in fact, a looting) was done by rebel military or well-armed militia? There could be more people and larger trucks involved.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Hi everybody...

Hi! I 've been wondering about you ... I figured you're up to your eyeballs in nappies, but I miss you!

[The Gaffer]

Missed you too! Yes, I've been dealing with my fair share of biological weaponry. Sadly El Gafferinho hasn't read the Geneva convention. I've also been to Hungary for a week with work, which was cool, though slightly off-topic.

Doesn't anybody else think that this is an inevitable result of the chaos you get in a war zone? This was just one of the consequences many of the anti-war people were predicting in advance of the invasion.

Along with the news that the numbers of insurgents is over 20,000 individuals, this is profoundly depressing news.

[Khamûl]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

What if the looting (if there was in fact, a looting) was done by rebel military or well-armed militia? There could be more people and larger trucks involved.

Apparently, the Russians had something to do with it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...2637-6257r.htm

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Khamûl

Apparently, the Russians had something to do with it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...2637-6257r.htm

Wait - don't muddy the waters for the democrats. Don't you know that it HAS to be Bush and all Bush. Didn't you see how it doesn't really matter about the Oil and Food scandal or the fact that France was giving Iraq weapons right up till the war? Don't tell us that Russia might have had a role to play in the 380 tons of missing explosives now. Not to mention that if it's true - then they were actually moved to a TERRORIST supporting country like Syria. Come on - they were against the war - we don't want to hear about them doing anything "bad" like that.