08-16-2004, 06:17 PM | #121 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
But as I said, it's less scary to believe you have less responsibility, IMO, and I think many people don't want to seriously investigate the alternative to naturalism because of this.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-16-2004, 06:19 PM | #122 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-16-2004, 06:20 PM | #123 | |
Mootis per forum
Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Spain
Posts: 61,439
|
Quote:
The debated problem now seems to be if humans have anything else apart of instinct...
__________________
Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
|
08-16-2004, 06:42 PM | #124 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
I like this quote (azalea's comment about the garage reminded me of it!) : Quote:
Quote:
(I particularly get a laugh out of statements like I heard at a wild animal park recently - "The deer evolved camouflage patterns to evade predators because it helped them survive." "The predators evolved camouflage patterns to hide from their prey because it helped them survive." "[insert animal] evolved [insert characteristic] because it helped them survive." Talk about lack of thinking!!) I believe Christianity is true based on TONS of observation of evidence and LOTS of analysis, and I make statements based on what I believe is true. You operate the same way. It's no cop-out for either one of us, unless we make statements without thinking.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-16-2004 at 06:52 PM. |
||||
08-16-2004, 07:03 PM | #125 | ||
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
.... Quote:
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
||
08-16-2004, 07:13 PM | #126 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
And with that observation, I have to go pick up the kids from chess camp! (Or "chest" camp, as my daughter calls it! )
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-16-2004 at 07:15 PM. |
|
08-16-2004, 09:46 PM | #127 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
|
I added the point in question to the thread title. Hope no one minds.
|
08-16-2004, 10:57 PM | #128 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|
08-16-2004, 11:22 PM | #129 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
The notion that "a god created mankind and set him over creation" reminds me of racism. Some white people actually believed that blacks or others races were inferior, and it was perfectly acceptable for whites to have dominion over them. They felt the "evidence" clearly pointed to this conclusion, but they were certainly wrong. Just because you can't personally experience (and therefore don't understand) another creature's mentality, doesn't set you above it. IMO
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
08-16-2004, 11:30 PM | #130 | ||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
Quote:
I think we are approaching this point from different levels. Some of you are seeing “intelligence” and “mercy” and “conscious thought” and concluding wow we must be AWFUL special! And better then anything else in the WHOLE WORLD! Monkeys don’t have indoor plumbing! So we are specialer then them! Which means they must all be here to be our slaves!! Woohoo!! But you are ignoring what other creatures DO have. And that we generally DON’T have what they have. What we have is no more special then what they have. We both need our respective states of being to maximize our survival potential in this dangerous world. Don’t knock the other animals just because they don’t need your garages. If we end up going extinct, garages or not, while worms and toads and ugly nasty icky crawly things keep right on living and surviving then who will be the special one then?
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
||
08-17-2004, 02:44 AM | #131 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
(ps - I hope you haven't been affected by the hurricane? You're in Florida, right?)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-17-2004 at 03:40 AM. |
|
08-17-2004, 03:02 AM | #132 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I'll repeat it for you, and bold the important words, which I often use and you hardly ever use, and let's see who is more qualified to be called conceited: Quote:
If someone asked Queen Elizabeth, "do you think you are the queen of England?", is it narcisisstic for her to say, "yes, I am"?!? Of course not! It's just simply a fact that she's the Queen of England! It's the same principle here - I don't believe that humans are different BECAUSE I WANT them to be "special". I believe it to be true based on evidence that I see all around me daily. And therefore it is NOT a narcisisstic belief; on the contrary, as I stated before, it's a rather uncomfy one - "to whom much is given, much is required!" There will be quite an accounting for all the gifts that God has given people. Personally, and I say this as gently and lovingly as is possible for typing-talk, I think YOU are the conceited one when it comes to opinions. Please review your last few posts on this thread, and tell me if you see any of the qualifiers that I often use in my posts ("if", "believe", "indicates"). YOU are the one that assumes your worldview is correct and mine is wrong, in no uncertain terms. I, at least, use words like "if" and/or "believe" when talking about my worldview. I know that you think you're right, just like I think I'm right - we can and SHOULD have our own opinions, I think - we should NOT mindlessly take up opinions of others. However, I would appreciate it if you would qualify your opinions more, as I do. I think it's more considerate of other people's beliefs. And as a self-proclaimed agnostic, I think that is an important thing for you to do, don't you?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-17-2004 at 03:08 AM. |
||
08-17-2004, 03:11 AM | #133 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I haven't said that. No one here has said that, IIRC. Can you show otherwise?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-17-2004, 03:15 AM | #134 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
Does that mean that everyone should stop making conclusions of any type? I don't think so, do you? Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-17-2004 at 03:16 AM. |
|||
08-17-2004, 03:32 AM | #135 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm still steaming over you calling me "conceited", BTW. I hope it was just a mistake, because I never said that my particular view WAS RIGHT; I only say that I think it's right, or in my opinion it's right, or things like that. I would appreciate an apology ( a really good juicy one would be fun! ) I do say that ONE particular view IS right (if we could only somehow know which one), which only makes sense, don't you think? I imagine we'll find out which one is right someday. Or if your opinion is right, we'll never really find out which one is right (and that's not a knock on your opinion, it's just a fact that comes along with holding your opinion, right?) Again, YOU have an opinion on this issue, and so do I. So what's the big difference? Perhaps you have known Christians that hold opinions mindlessly or conceitedly; I hope I've posted here enough to show that I'm not that way. Please judge me on ME; not on stereotypes. I hold my opinions based on thought and my evaluation of the evidence; I'll do you the courtesy to assume you hold your opinions based on the same thing. Please do me the same courtesy.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
||
08-17-2004, 03:32 AM | #136 | |
Mootis per forum
Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Spain
Posts: 61,439
|
Quote:
You cannot deny the validity of the concept of morals and also claim it for animals...
__________________
Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
|
08-17-2004, 03:37 AM | #137 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I don't think you'll be able to.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
08-17-2004, 03:40 AM | #138 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
hmmm since I can't seem to sleep, why don't I reply?
Some interesting discussions going on here. I believe that Humans are just animals (believe based on scientific evidence of course ) You know, physically looking similar to other animals, being made up of the same stuff, all that hair on us, similar chromosomes, genes, traits, dna, similar fetuses, ETC. We also have many "animal instincts" in us, among other things Of course, that doesn't rule out that a "God" created all things with similar inrediants However, I find that much less plausible than Humans simply evolving from Apes or whatever. I even find the idea that some alien (maybe even calling himself "god") simply sped up the evolution or/and alter the genetics of lower animals (ex: apes) into humans much more plausible than . Of course, that is getting off topic. With more intelligence than other animals, over the years Humans have progressed far since hunter-gatherer days - when, btw, we were much more similar to animals than we are now. Other animals are able to make their own "garages." Beavers make dams, ants make "homes" in the dirt, with many passaeways, "rooms" to sleep in, "rooms" for their young, the dead, the processing of food, ETC. Other insects make "houses" out of trees or things and may even have symbiotic relationships with them - the tree providing the house while the ants or insect will protect it. Birds make nests. Other creatures burrow into the ground to make homes (some rodents). It is clear that animals have intellience and that it is not all just "instinct" However, they also do not think like us and cannot speak in in way we do. Who knows if they even have any kind of language maybe similar to our early grunts? Who knows, but probably not. And yet, there must be some reason that animals of the same species like to stay together in groups - almost (not all) type of animal will do this, even jellyfish. They also seem to recognize the call of their kind. Whales and their whale songs come to mind. Do they have morals? Who knows, maybe animal morals :P They certainly don't mind killing any other creature so that they may live. That is why I don't understand vegetarians - ANIMALS eat other animals all the time.
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
08-17-2004, 04:56 AM | #139 | |
The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
|
Quote:
__________________
Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
|
08-17-2004, 08:32 AM | #140 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
Rian...I guess the fact that you "CHOOSE" to believe certain "EVIDENCE" (and what you choose as "evidence" seems arbitrary to me...the entire "evidence for creation" thread was unremarkable, in that it produced NO actual evidence....IMO ) is what seems narcissistic. I can't help but think (no matter what you say.... ) that you "CHOOSE" to believe a god created the universe with mankind "set over" (that part kills me! It's like this is all some sort of "free-will" *test*! ) because you see humans as special. Your CHOICE seems narcissitic. This choice of being "set over" other creatures is the part that reminds me of racism. If the other creatures of planet earth suddenly developed human style communication, I'm would really be surprised if they believed humans were created to "set over" everything as you say.
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Awesome Animal News! | Lotesse | General Messages | 152 | 06-24-2009 08:25 PM |
YayGollum's Many As Well As Achingly Unique Tales Of Middle Earth Outcasts! | YayGollum | Writer's Workshop | 29 | 08-16-2007 08:28 PM |
Theological Opinions , PART II | jerseydevil | General Messages | 993 | 03-22-2007 05:19 AM |
Why you believe what you believe I | Rían | General Messages | 1173 | 02-01-2005 03:56 PM |
Animal Rights/Dissection Debate | Ragnarok | General Messages | 39 | 08-16-2004 09:37 PM |