01-15-2004, 11:16 AM | #1 |
Hobbit
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Tom Bombadil
I know this subject has been discussed quite a bit but I have been trying to convince a friend of mine who is new to the books that nobody really knows who Tom is and that question will never been answered. Everyone has a theory, heck I have one. Just wanted some feedback on the following (men of the west are in my opinion the rangers such as Strider):
just finished 'Fog on the Barrow-Downs' and I have a new theory on Tom Bombadil. I think he was once one of the Men of Westernesse that somehow became immortal. (Like in Highlander before they ruined it with that space alien crap in Highlander 2) On page 142, Tom says that the Men of Westernesse were foes of the Dark Lord, but they were overcome by the evil king of Carn Dum in the Land of Angmar. He goes on to say: "Few now remember them yet some go wandering, sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding from evil things folk that are heedless." (as Tom does for the Hobbits when he rescues them from the Wight). Also, prior to that passage on the same page Tom picks up the brooch from the Wight's treasure and "looked long at it, as if stirred by some memory, shaking his head...". On page 143, they pass the "boundary of a kingdom, but a very long time ago. He (Tom) seemed to remember something sad about it, and would not say much." On page 144, Tom says that "out east my knowledge fails. Tom is not master of Riders from the Black Land far beyond his country". Of course, as I read further may theory may be completely blown (or maybe not since you said he is not really a part of the story from here on out). I guess I'll have to try and read 'The Silmarillion'.
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01-15-2004, 11:23 AM | #2 |
Elven Warrior
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I don't think Tom could be a Man of any kind. The Elves call him Eldest. I don't have the text in front of me, but it seems to me there's something about Tom being in Middle-Earth before the Elves arrived.
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01-15-2004, 11:45 AM | #3 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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He is "father-less" according to the Elves and according to himself he saw the first drops of rain, which would rule out the possibility of him being a man...
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01-15-2004, 04:19 PM | #4 |
Orodruin's Flame
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ask the Mewlips lol
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01-15-2004, 07:14 PM | #5 |
Mirthful Maiden
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I read a thory about him somewhere, I think it was in another thread on Tom and I personally think it makes the most sense.
It basically explains Tom to be the spirit of the Earth. Maybe I'll dig it up......nope can't find it. But many people have thier own thories about Tom. Tolkien obviously didn't explain him for his own reasons. As much as you try to figure him out, there is no absolute answer to the mystery behind Tom Bombadill.
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01-15-2004, 07:33 PM | #6 |
Orodruin's Flame
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i always thought he was kinda like Treebeard, ancient, pratically ever lasting and his wearabouts from the begining not really known. It is said the Ents and Dwarves awakened at about the same time, just after the Elves awakened at the begining of the Ages of Stars. Although, the Ents were conceived much earlier, in the Age of Trees (Era One), and the Dwarves at the end of the Age of Darkness. I am assuming he was not made before the Eagles of Manwe, as he wasnt a servant of the Valar was he? Or maybe he was? SO that means he had to be created after that ( Middle of the Age of Trees (Era One) ).
So.... there is a time gap in which i will assume he came about to be, between the beginning of the Age of Trees (Era Two), and just before Orome discovered the Elves, in the Middle of the First Age of Trees (Era Two). Now if you understood that lol, it would fit into the fact, that he is one of eldest (bar the Valar and Eagles), and was around before the Elves. As for who Tom is, i dont know, maybe he is the kind of 'Valar Archivist' - keeping mental records through time, acually being part of the world. Something along the lines of that i think... I dont know if anyone agrees with this, but its an idea! - lol ( had to add it in at the end lol )
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Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist. |
01-15-2004, 09:15 PM | #7 |
Lady of Westernesse
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Well, it's pretty much impossible for Tom to be a Numenor. After all, he's been on Middle-earth for even longer than the Elves. I've always thought him to be a second-hand Maiar, sent down by Iluvatar to guard Middle-earth from evil-doings. But he quickly took a liking to the Old Forest, and spent all his time in it. Iluvatar became angry and forbid Tom to see beyond the West, but allowed him to become the "Master". Just my thought.
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Yada, yada, yada |
01-15-2004, 10:32 PM | #8 |
The Insufferable
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I am Tom Bombadil!
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01-16-2004, 12:42 AM | #9 | |
High King of Númenórë
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Quote:
Uhhh, there was no Numenor until the beginning of the Second Age...So how would it be possible for Tom to be from Numenor then? He is "fatherless" and was there before the Elves. The Elves were awake before the First Age even began. Men didn't show up until after the Elves, Men awoke in the 1st year of the First Age. That alone disproves Tom is a "Man"...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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01-16-2004, 10:58 AM | #10 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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i recently reread lost tales... towards the beginning there is mention of spirits, other than the ainur, who came from the outside when the world was created... i can't remember the names tolkien used, but maybe this idea stuck with him, yet he decided not to spell it out so much to add to the mystery
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01-16-2004, 11:15 AM | #11 | |
Enting
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Straight from Tolkien -
Quote:
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'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
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01-16-2004, 01:43 PM | #12 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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good point ulmo... CT also mentions in lost tales that his father had reservations about publishing the silmarillion at all, since it might take away from some of the mystery behind LoTR
i also wonder how happy he would be about his son basically publishing every word he ever put to paper... my guess is he might be a bit unhappy that said, though i appreciate jrrt's sentiments... like many authors, i think he was a bit too touchy on the subject of interpretations and such... i think author's should appreciate the attention, whether or not the conclusions are the ones they were hoping to transmit
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01-16-2004, 03:17 PM | #13 | |
Enting
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True. I'm sure he did, and that he made the statement after being frustrated, but I can't help but sympathsize with him because of all of these odd twistings of logic/facts into "theories" on who Tom really is, especially after he has explained it so many times, and understand this in light of Tom's real purpose in the story - in that letter, Tolkien was speaking of people trying to figure out who Tom is as opposed to what Tom is - his literary purpose, which Tolkien explained often (and best in the letter I've quoted already):
Quote:
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'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
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01-16-2004, 07:59 PM | #14 | ||
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Quote:
Quote:
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01-18-2004, 05:31 PM | #15 |
"The Bomb"
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Yeah, most theories are almost accurate, save one or two discrepencies. I have multiple theories that would cover this too, but I think he's a tall tale to some extent. He was in ME a long time, that's for sure, even if not from the beginning. But over that time it seems likely that some facts about him were twisted a bit by word of mouth. Which means that his whole story is lost, so in any case, we never will know what he is.
Tom's the bomb.
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01-22-2004, 03:19 AM | #16 |
Sapling
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Dude, when it comes down to the bottom line, Tom is the Bomb lol
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01-23-2004, 01:41 PM | #17 |
Elven Warrior
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I've never heard an argument that really works, so I've always thought of Tom as something outside Tolkien's definitions. I think he was intended to be mysterious and I think JRRT was happy to leave it at that.
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06-01-2004, 09:03 AM | #18 |
Fëanorophobic
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Who is Tom Bombadil?
I know this is an age old question, but I can't seem to find a thread relating to it. (If there was an old thread can somebody please refer me to it?)
Anyway, I think he's either a Maia or a sort of Elf-Hobbit hybrid. My reasons: He uses singing to do "magic". Sauron, a Maia, did this; and so did Luthien and Fingolfin. Also Gandalf talks about him as an equal (he says something like "he [Bombadil] is a moss-gatherer while I'm a stone doomed to roll"), as if they were both of the same race. So he's either a Maia undercover or a descendant from a Moriquendi-hobbit or Moriquendi-human marriage (hence the beard and the belly ) Any ideas? Last edited by Beren3000 : 06-01-2004 at 09:05 AM. |
06-01-2004, 12:36 PM | #19 |
Elf Lord
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I found a few threads about Tom Bombadil:
http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10004 http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2909 http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5974 By the way, when did Fingolfin use singing as magic? You mean Finrod? |
06-01-2004, 12:48 PM | #20 |
Elf Lord
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A mystery wrapped in an enigma, wearing a silly hat.
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