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12-13-2003, 12:08 AM | #41 | ||
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Yes, it means "Endowed with the power of speech"; or "Expressing oneself easily in clear and effective language." Quote:
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12-13-2003, 12:17 AM | #42 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Actually, I find this a very interesting subject. I havent been this interested in a thread since who knows when.
What I find interesting is the fact that france hasnt tried maybe hiring stricter yeachers and pricipals for the schools, so as to stop the extreme prejudice against jewish students. surely, they would be taking a short cut. but I think I just dont know enough of the subject for that idea to have much logic...
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12-13-2003, 05:38 AM | #43 |
Elven Warrior
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Tell you what, I'll just be quiet now...
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12-13-2003, 12:07 PM | #44 |
the Shrike
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Yeah, you do that. Your sweeping generalisations are atrocious, and almost make me want to pull a Ruinel.
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12-13-2003, 01:59 PM | #45 | |
Elven Warrior
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12-13-2003, 07:41 PM | #46 | |
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This article in next weeks Time magazine has the story about the Jewish school being burnt to the ground and the bpys having to wear baseball caps in Paris to hide their yarmakhas that I had seen on French news. The article is mostly about the increase in these type of crimes throughout Europe, which is the same thing I hear and see on French news not just US media.
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12-14-2003, 06:15 AM | #47 |
Elf Lord
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I think that this is one area where those of us who are fron immigrant societies - Canada, America, Australia, NZ- can deal with this in an easier way. Most countries in the world are based on national/ethnic groups, and outsiders are always going to be seen that way.
For nations based on immigrants, it ain't necessarily so. In this, the USA has led the way, because it's independence was based on defiance of the "Mother Country". To be an 'American' therefore became (in theory, if not always in practise) a matter of accepting certain ideas and pledging loyalties to certain beliefs. Because the other 'immigrant' societies were open in this way, it became easier for us to follow the 'American ' path. I've certainly seen this in my own lifetime in Canada- where it used to be 'British-Canadians', 'French-Canadians' and 'others'.
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12-14-2003, 11:04 AM | #48 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I agree GrayMouser. My dscendants came over through Ellisa Island - from Ireland, Italy, Czechlosovakia, Poland, Russia - yet no one can deny that I am 100% American. My grandparents never considered themselves to be anything but American either - even though the apartment my ancestors on my mother's side was still in the family and was where my mother grew up in Jersey City. MY great-great-grandmother etched the date they came to America and moved into their new home into the pane of glass with her wedding ring.
America is founded on immigration and I think it is much easier for us to deal with the religious and cultural differences of others - this is particularly true in the northeast where so many people have immigrated to and still do. This is where the concept of the "melting pot" comes in. People think that the melting pot refers to everyone being the same - this is the furthest thing from the truth. It refers to the making of steel, taking different metals, melting them together and forming a much stronger, lighter, better metal from them.
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12-17-2003, 02:35 PM | #49 | |
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Chirac as agreed to a ban on people wearing head scarves and other religious symbols in schools, colleges and even recommends a ban in HOSPITALS.
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12-17-2003, 02:58 PM | #50 | |
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12-18-2003, 04:27 AM | #51 | |
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12-18-2003, 05:00 AM | #52 |
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Hey! I'm Elladan, and American living in London and going to a french school. All I can say is that the french call this "laïque". This means that the French have no imposed religions and that they respect all other beliefs. This is very important to the French so they think they should ban all sign "ostentatoire" (visible) of religion, political and philosophical orientation.
I understand why the French think this is necessary, but I see it as "laïcard" which is disrespectful to religion. But to each his own. |
12-18-2003, 10:25 AM | #53 |
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I think its an outrage stopping students from wearign the head scarves.
Its taking away their right to express their religious beleif's.Its like taking away freedom of speech. Its disgusting of the French.(No offence to any frnch people)
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12-18-2003, 09:09 PM | #54 |
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My good friend Mona, who is a Muslim from Lebanon, told me of this in France. I believe her parents grew up in France, she has cousins there. She is offended.
It seems like it is an opinion that people shouldn't display their religious beliefs in public schools. Legislation should not be based on an opinion. While some people may think this may prevent problems, it seems to me that it shall cause more problems.
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12-18-2003, 09:30 PM | #55 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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French news reported on this from Washington today and said that American just don't understand and we're completely ignorant of what they are trying to do.
It was sort of strange - they didn't say anything about what we thought they were doing - just that we were completely ignorant. If you understand French - you can watch the December 18th broadcast of Journal de 20h
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12-20-2003, 02:46 PM | #56 |
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[Edited and removed some remarks by self]. I agree with Chirac.
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Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought. Last edited by Radagast : 12-20-2003 at 02:49 PM. |
12-20-2003, 02:50 PM | #57 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 12-20-2003 at 02:53 PM. |
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12-20-2003, 04:01 PM | #58 |
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Radagast:
I'm curious: How is it that the wearing of a symbol of one's faith is "extremism"? Would a nun wearing her habit in public be extremism? Why are people embarrassed by others who wear such things? As I haven't heard a view like that before, I'm very interested in learning more.
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12-20-2003, 04:13 PM | #59 |
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I am embarrassed by people with bad taste in fashion. Maybe we should make it so everyone dresses like I do...
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12-21-2003, 08:05 AM | #60 | |
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I am not a plenipotentiary for France so I cannot speak entirely for her but surely every nation holds its values as superior over that of others? Don't you force immigrants to make an Oath of Allegiance? You hold your values of tolerance superior, surely, over the values of let's-all-hack-the-infidels? Surely you hold your values superior over the those of the 11th September terrorists? AND please note- by that sentence do not assume I hold the terrorist values to be true to all Muslims and so forth. My point boils down to the fact that when one comes to a nation you should meld in. You say you are 100% American, don't you jerseydevil? Your Polish or whatever ancestors considered themselves American. So too should French Muslims consider themselves French. true to French values- which react with horror to the wearing of veils. As to nuns and their habits that's I good point and one which has caught me out a bit, I must say. But I suppose that is a different case- because, by definition, they voluntarily became nuns, they therefore chose to wear the habit [they have very bad habits, by the way, those nuns ] whereas the veil is forced on them.
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Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought. |
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