10-24-2003, 01:33 PM | #1 |
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The Wearing of Narya
When Gandalf faced the Balrog in Moria, he wore Narya. That left him vulnerable to the One Ring's corruptive and compomising power.
That decision leads me to my first doubt of Gandalf: What would happen if the One Ring was worn during those 10 days in which they were fighting? It doesn't seem so wizardly wise. I've thought about Narya's healing power. He could have been "fortifying his walls" during battle. But he didn't seem to fully consider what would occur if someone slipped on the One Ring. Surely, he'd be screwed. That would have been worse than anything the Balrog alone could have done to him. Really, he didn't even need to fight the Balrog. He sent it falling to its death, that was all good. Of course, he was pulled down with it, but he is a Maiar; he had so many alternatives. Somebody help me out. I don't feel comfortable going against Tolkien. And please don't flame me.
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10-24-2003, 01:57 PM | #2 |
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I don't think just ANYONE putting on the Ring would have affected the users of the Three. It didn't seem to bother them whenever Gollum, Bilbo or Frodo had the Ring on. Probably only someone with a very strong will would have affected them... most likely Sauron (else Saruman - very few others of evil bent).
And if Sauron got the Ring... all was lost anyway. Faith in the judgement of Gandalf/JRRT restored? |
10-24-2003, 02:24 PM | #3 |
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Remember Frodo asked Galadriel why, when he wore the Ring, he was not aware of the thoughts and actions of the other Bearers. Galdriel responded that, in the first place, he had not tried, and in the second, he would have to train his will to the dominion of others, first. So it wasn't just automatic that the wearer of the One was in charge of all the other Bearers.
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10-24-2003, 02:34 PM | #4 |
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I suppose the bearers of the three Elven rings always wore their rings. (Using it's power is of course quite another thing.) And Frodo had already put on the ring once or twice on his journey to Rivendell. If his putting on the One Ring had affected the bearers of the Three then, they would have known so before Gandalf's fight with the Balrog. If Frodo's putting on the One Ring had indeed affected them, they would have taken measures not to be caught, it would be terribly neglecting of them if they didn't do so before the fellowship set out.
So I don't think Gandalf should have worried about Narya when anyone else than Sauron put on the One Ring. Sauron was probably the only one who would be able to use the One Ring to it's full potential. As long as Sauron and his Ring were kept seperate, the Three were supposedly rather safe. Nor do I think the Ring's corruptive powers on the people around it were stronger when somebody wore it, unless -I suppose- the bearer would attempt to use the Ring, which Frodo did not.
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10-24-2003, 02:47 PM | #5 |
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Coupla things I HAVE wondered about though... we know Celebrimbor became aware of Sauron (I assume through one of the Three) when Sauron first put on the One...
1. Were Elrond, Cirdan and Galadriel aware of Isildur when he put on the One to flee from the orcs? Did that help them piece together what had happened to him... at least to the point the One came off? Of course they wouldn't say so openly... it would be admitting that they held one of the Three. 2. Did the One necessarily automatically confer invisibility? I would think invisibility would be handy when desired, but could be inconvenient if you didn't want it at the moment, but wanted to exercise some other function of the One (like dominion over others... and you want your troops to see you). Like even the movie depicts, I don't imagine the One making Sauron invisible. What if Isildur put on the One and commanded it to make him invisible? Then... because the following ringbearers (Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo), either didn't have thestrength of will to change that... or didn't try, the Ring was sort of "stuck" in the mode of confering invisibility until commanded otherwise (even after over 3000 years). JRRT doesn't seem to hint at either of those that I know of... but what do the rest of you think? |
10-24-2003, 02:49 PM | #6 |
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As has been pointed out by others. I don't think that Gandalf or any of the wearers of the Three Rings had to worry about the One Ring unless it was purposely being used for evil. Gollum never learned how to use it and Frodo never tried.
Last edited by Ilúvatar : 10-24-2003 at 02:50 PM. |
10-24-2003, 02:56 PM | #7 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
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Edit: Found, Fëar, hröar and the Ring
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10-24-2003, 07:14 PM | #8 | ||
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Yeah, thanks. That does clear a few things up for me.
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10-26-2003, 12:16 AM | #9 |
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I'm pretty sure that the rings of power only conveyed invisibility to mortals. I.E., Humans (inclluding hobbits). Elves and maia don't seem to become invisible when they wear their rigns. and dwarves might not either.
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10-26-2003, 02:05 PM | #10 |
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I think that each ring has its own little power, like Galadriel's ring helped to sustain things (I think), and Narya was supposed to keep you going, espically when one wearies of tthe road, or something. Also, you could probably decide if you wanted to be invisible or not, if you had the will to do so. I could be of more help if some short guy hadn't stolen mine before I could get time to really use it. Sorry
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10-26-2003, 03:01 PM | #11 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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As for whether Isildur would have been able to know the thoughts of those who held the Three, yes, he could have; but, IIRC, at that time the Three were still in hiding, not being worn (or used). It was only after Sauron was known to be bereft of the One that the Elven Rings were used, and we have no information on exactly when that was.
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10-27-2003, 11:45 PM | #12 |
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Is it possible that it was through the use of his Elven ring that Gandalf was able to detect Frodos' use of the One on Amon Hen? He hinted that Sauron almost saw where Frodo was located and that as the "Voice" he communicated with Frodo telling him "fool, take it off". It seems possible to me that the rings could have been in concert with each other during those moments. Very roughly akin to the palantiri. Maybe not completely in tune (since they had never been together), but as focal points for power to be displayed. The Three and the One did have some things in common other than the obvious fact that they were all rings. Particularly when you consider that Sauron had learned all of the Elven-smiths' secrets and then used them to craft the One. While the One might not have been "in" the Three, the Three were definately "in" the One. (Does that make sense?)
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10-28-2003, 12:04 AM | #13 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Artanis... thanks for that thread! It WAS interesting, but admittedly a little over my head.
Guess I still have much to learn. ("I am an egg" - recognize THAT one?) Have I gotta read all 12 volumes of HoME? And learn Quenya & Sindarin?? |
10-28-2003, 06:12 PM | #14 | ||
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I don't think that anyone here has read all 12 volumes of HoME. Someone who can prove me wrong? If there are some words you don't understand, or you've got other questions, feel free to ask. Quote:
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10-28-2003, 06:21 PM | #15 | |
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Personally I've been through 9 of them, and my favorites have been HoME II (Lost Tales part 2, due to the story of the Fall of Gondolin), HoME X (Morgoth's Ring, which includes great writings like Laws and Customs, Athrabeth a Finrod a Andreth) and HoME XII (The Peoples of Middle Earth).
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10-29-2003, 03:29 AM | #16 | ||
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Keith K, I think your theory is a good one.
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11-03-2003, 03:24 PM | #17 |
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Yes. Keith K I think your theory is good. It is in harmony with the abilities of the rings as we know them, especialy since Fordo is the one that reads the mind of Gandalf in that moment and not the other way around.
By the way Artanis, I at least have read all 12 volumes of The History of Middle-Earth and that more than once, and I think there are more members of the board that have done so. Respectfully Findegil |
11-03-2003, 05:02 PM | #18 | |
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11-04-2003, 01:42 AM | #19 | |
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I have just obtained a copy of The Letters of JRR Tolkien and while browsing through it I discovered something that may be of interest to this thread. In letter 131 the author states
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11-04-2003, 10:44 AM | #20 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Yes, Carpenter says in the Biography that Allen & Unwyn (JRRT's publishers) were quite perplexed by the chaotic state of The Silmarillion and declined to publish it, to JRRT's anger. He actually shopped the two to a few other publishers, without success.
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