10-23-2003, 03:16 PM | #61 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Once again, BB, you are baiting people by categorizing and dehumanizing them. When they cease being individuals and are only "literalists", "purists", etc., they will forever be inclined to fight you and disinclined to give your points any consideration.
Once again, JD, you are exagerating and distorting other people's opinions. The only response they could possibly have to that is to try to re-word their opinions, which in the end is merely repetitive and unproductive. The fact is, BB has re-read the books many times just like the other JRRT fans here. If people were to actually browse the Books forum they would see some very lively discussions which could never take place without a good knowledge of the texts. And obviosly, PJ has far to much work to do at this moment to waste his time arguing with me. It would be preposterously egotistical to presume that PJ would even consider my opinion. If I were one of the artists whose paintings inspired him, or one of the linguists who has written about Tolkien's invented languages, maybe he would ask my opinion. But since I'm just a fellow reader, I see no reason why he would care what I think. I don't like the way they handled Theoden's problems because they missed the point, as I stated above. But they certainly have been more attentive to the original text than they were to any of Phillip K. Dick's novels. And even though we are Tolkien fans here, we have no business saying that Dick is less important and that therefore it is OK to screw up his stuff. So I can understand why this constant objection to minor changes could bother some people. But IMHO the movies are good.
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10-23-2003, 03:38 PM | #62 |
Elf Lord
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BB has a point about the movie's opting for a more visual confrontation of the wizards, which also moves the story quickly along. My criticism of it is fairly minor. But as for
__________________________________________________ _ "Okay, gang....how did Gandalf lose control of his staff??? Would you have us believe he simply admitted defeat and handed it over to Saruman? How did he get to the top of Orthanc? Did he shrug his shoulders in dispair and say, "okay, Saruman ol' buddy, I guess I have no choice," and walk willing up flights of stairs to get there?" __________________________________________________ _ Well, actually, yes. Gandalf, perhaps carelessly, walked into a trap. He was surrounded by many orcs and Dunlendings, and an Istari who at that time was presumably more powerful then Gandalf, as the senior of the order. Gandalf was in the position of a soldier surrounded by a vastly superior force. In that case the only rational option was surrender, including his weapon (staff). And would two maia engage in a street fight, getting bloody noses, when the outcome could not be in doubt?
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10-23-2003, 05:13 PM | #63 | ||||
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10-23-2003, 05:57 PM | #64 | |
Banned
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Where has BB posted in the Books forum? I'd like to know, because I've never seen him post there. Perhaps I've just overlooked his posts, or perhaps he's posting under a different name. |
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10-23-2003, 07:11 PM | #65 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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This thread was originally about Theoden. It has turned into an insult BB thread. Has everyone had their overreaction to BB's "pure genius" comment now? He loves the movies. So what?
Do you think Theoden is an ass in the movie? Is that the way you think the character should have been portrayed?
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10-23-2003, 07:30 PM | #66 |
Elf Lord
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Yes, we wants to know too. Why do the nasty mooters insult poor, poor BB. We tries to be nice to them, don't we, preciousss? We tries to debate nice and be friends. But cruel, wicked posters hurts us.
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10-23-2003, 07:42 PM | #67 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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I thought I explained that already. When you turn individuals with diverse opinions into various "-ists" you upset them and they go defensive. It's called de-humanizing, or objectifying.
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10-23-2003, 07:54 PM | #68 |
Hobbit
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So that Theoden guy, what a character, huh? I mean, the old chap died by having his trusty horse fall on him! Ya know, Theoden seemed pretty cool to me though, like when he was chillen with Merry and listening to stories of the shire. I think that's pretty cool. So yeah. BB, nice impression of Smeagol. I liked it.
Go Bengals!
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10-23-2003, 09:33 PM | #69 | |
Elf Lord
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The Scene: Tolkien's Council of Elrond where Gandalf describes the details of his capture:
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Black Breathalizer: Yoohoo, Gandalf. I have a question. Your description leaves the specifics of your capture awfully vague and open to debate. How EXACTLY did "they take you"??? Gandalf: I think that's irrelevant to my tale. The important thing is that Saruman held me against my will. Black Breathalizer: I understand completely, Sir. Since this part of the tale is told second hand, you're leaving it to our imaginations to visualize the specifics. But while it's really all we need to know for the novel, the problem is that Peter Jackson made a film showing your capture in real-time. Gandalf: So what? Black Breathalizer: Well, PJ ASSUMED you wouldn't accept your captivity without a fight while others who read your books ASSUMED you passively accepted your fate. Gandalf: Do I strike you as the kind of wizard who would abandon Frodo to the ringwraiths that easily? Black Breathalizer: N-N-No, Sir. It's just that these so-called "Purists" I was debating against were so darn sure they had you pegged. In fact, they were so adamant about their truth, they couldn't resist ridiculing Jackson for his version of events. Gandalf: Tell these jokers they don't hold any patents on Tolkien truths. |
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10-23-2003, 10:13 PM | #70 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Well, I finally found Theoden/Bernard. He loves my perfume, and he doesn't care what you guys think! So...we'll be clinking crystal wine goblets by the fireplace, Cheers!
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10-23-2003, 10:35 PM | #71 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Orthanc WAS Saruman's home and Saruman led Gandalf up to the top. Saruman was also more powerful - so why is it so impossible? Gandalf in the book clearly trusted Saruman until he took his staff and imprisoned him. Radagast also had no reason to distrust Saruman and had delivered the message to Gandalf to go to Isengard.
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10-23-2003, 11:00 PM | #72 | |
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Back to Theoden. Sorry folks.
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10-23-2003, 11:04 PM | #73 | ||
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-23-2003 at 11:05 PM. |
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10-23-2003, 11:10 PM | #74 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-23-2003, 11:13 PM | #75 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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And I talked about Theoden - the scene sucked. One of the worst in the movie.
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10-23-2003, 11:57 PM | #76 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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We will now make a serious effort to get back on topic. The discussion is about Theoden. Not Gandalf, not Saruman, not the Browns and Bengals, not BB, but Theoden.
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10-24-2003, 12:00 AM | #77 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-24-2003, 12:26 AM | #78 |
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Oh Theoden! Where for art thou Theoden?
Umm, this is a poem I wrote about Theoden: Theoden Extempore Theoden came from the land of the Rohirrim, Not Rohans, or Gohans, but Rohirrim. And ever did Theoden love to do, Was to talk small talk and drink some brew. Theoden found himself in a tight situation, As the orcs of Sauruman were building up tension, Who's master had a bought with the great Gandalf, Leaving all people wondering which was Theoden's better half? A prideful king? A pleasent merry chum? Perhaps he just like to sit around on his bum. For all the matters of Theoden great and small, None would be as important as getting Grima out of his hall. This limerick may now be coming to a close, But lets not debate such frivolus things as who is wearing better clothes! I hope that was on topic, but I can come up with more things too. My next piece could be Improvisate of Theoden . Goodnight, and God Bless!
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10-24-2003, 12:32 AM | #79 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Goodnight.Adieu.
as i said before "Ainaromenel the peace maker". Hope you werent offended earlier on by my speculation. I was just poking fun.
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10-24-2003, 12:57 AM | #80 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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ok this is off topic, but i have to post it.
this is adressed to BB. When I first came here,I was a PJ fanatic. And I saw people didnt agree with my views. I was like "oh great i hate this place now" . However I started keeping my opinions to myself. Let them bash PJ and the movies. Liking the movies does not mean you have to go to extreme lengths to protect PJ or his interpretation. While liking the movies(and i like them a lot) I accept that PJ did not follow true to the books. I give PJ his points for the tings he did right. And I leave it at that. BB, I'm not trying to be your counselor or anything,but, you're going to have to accept that some people arent going to ever like PJ or the movies. (and IF you ARE PJ, you're going to have to deal with it). It all comes down to: Accept the faults,Give credit for the trueness.
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