08-29-2003, 08:06 PM | #141 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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The relationship between France and the US is still very cold - even though they are sending tourist representatives begging Americans to travel there (Chirac should have thought about that before). Quote:
You feel that you are free because your speech hasn't been restricted (you seem to be the mainstream of Portugese Politics)- if you were one of the people whose speech is restricted then you would NOT consider yourself free. I would suggest you watch or read 1984 and Farenheit 451 for information on what happens when the government restricts people's thought and freedoms. Don't think it can't happen either - the Soviets did it (leftists) and the Nazis did it (rightists). It's still going on in China, North Korea and Cuba - all leftist governments. Freedom of thought and speech is the most important thing - without that - it means someone else is trying to control your mind and thoughts. I was talking to someone about this and they had come up with somethign I thought about. How would you feel if Ben just decided to make this board only where you could discuss good things about America? If you posted a discenting opinion on America - it automatically got deleted. What would happen then if we could say all these negative things about Europe - but then anything you said to counter it also got deleted? I have a feeling you wouldn't feel very free to express your opinion and you would feel rather descrimated against by the Americans. I bet it would make you more resentful too. But hey - it's an American board - so we could do it. So from now on - let's just hear how great America is and how it's the savior of the world. Then we won't have to take such drastic action and infringe on your free speech.
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08-29-2003, 08:39 PM | #142 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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By the way - this is Wolfenstein 3-D. The site contains the following warning...
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What I find strange about it being banned in Germany is that it isn't even a game in support of nazism.
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08-30-2003, 01:00 AM | #143 | ||||
The Elvish Temptress
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I think it is good that NS is forbidden, you are not. We will not agree. End of that disussion. Quote:
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08-30-2003, 01:07 AM | #144 | |||||
The Elvish Temptress
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Do as you please. I cannot (and I will not) hinder you. Your opinion.
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08-30-2003, 02:03 AM | #145 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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By the way - I'm currently watching Uprising - can you get this DVD is Austria or Germany? It's about the Warsaw Ghetto.
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08-30-2003, 02:12 AM | #146 |
Elf Lord
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JD, I agree with almost everything you say on free speech, even though my political opinion is very different BUT
Le Pen did not almost win the French election. He got enough support in the first round to edge out the Socialist candidate National Front (Le Pen): 16.86% Socialist (Jospin): 16.18% RFR: (Chirac): 19.88% with the rest divided among a plethora of minor parties. In the run-off required by the French electoral process he was overwhelmingly rejected. Chirac: 82.21% Le Pen:17.79% And of course, he was not running as a fascist but as a anti-immigrant nationalist , complaining about all the foreigners who come over and don't learn the language or culture, identify themselves with their old country, go on welfare etc. , etc. and all those liberal pc multiculturalists who help them get away with it.
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08-30-2003, 02:12 AM | #147 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Even if you subtract the known racism against Gypsies and other ethnic groups within Austria, Germany and other countries of Europe - people are NOT equal. You can NOT guarantee that everyone gets the same education and the same oppurtunities for college or that all schools are the same.
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08-30-2003, 02:23 AM | #148 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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We had a former KKK member run for the presidency - he didn't get half way through the primary - let alone with the primary. For all intensive purposes - LePen won the equivalent to one of our primaries. By the way - this is the description on Amazon of Uprising Quote:
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08-30-2003, 04:13 AM | #149 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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The line was " We just house N*****s" Whinny ass black people piss me off.
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08-30-2003, 04:40 AM | #150 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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It's like the damn Pirates of the Carribean ride. After 20 - 40 years of Walt Disney World and really Disneyland having the ride - a womens groupd complained about the ride. They had an issue with the pirates chasing the women around. I couldn't believe it when Disney folded and gave into them. The woment now carry plates of food - so the pirates are no longer chasing the women - they're chasing the food. The women's organisation felt it was demeaning to women - to hell with the fact that it was historically accurate.
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08-30-2003, 05:03 AM | #151 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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I agree with those who say freedom of speech should be for everyone, even if they're voicing extreme views. For me the only exception is statements which are asking people to take illegal actions. Extreme views are better dealt with in the open, instead of forcing them to remain underground, where I think they grow all the better.
Having said that I understand very well why so many people in Germany and Austria want to forbid the Neo-Nazis, even if they're marginal. European countries still live with the demons from WW2. Young Germans seem to have inherited the shame of the sins of their fathers. Heck, young people from Germany are coming here every year offering their help for free in hospitals, home care for elders and other social welfare structures. They want to 'make up for their grandfather's deeds' during the war. When I first heard of that it made a deep impact on me. It tells much about how the war is still remembered, more than 50 years later. Oh yeah, and I'm proud of being Norwegian.
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08-30-2003, 08:15 AM | #152 | |||||||
Elf Lord
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Possibly, if for some reason you are confused for someone else by the police, it is an easy and quick way to clarify who you really are. With it, we are identified as citizens of our state and the EU, and can travel without the need of passport. Etc. Oddly enough, given our recent history, it would be logical if we would suspect more of ID cards, but it doesn’t happen. On the other hand identification in the Internet is frown upon by many. Quote:
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You are making the assumption that if something was banned it was necessarily harmless, if detestable. But you are not basing that in knowledge, are you? Quote:
So I presume is simply a judicial fluke.
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08-30-2003, 12:46 PM | #153 | ||
Elf Lord
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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08-30-2003, 01:04 PM | #154 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Graymouser - what was your point? They did almost vote him in. They didn't want Chirac - Le Pen got a huge amount of the vote in the second round. The only reason why he was defeated in the second round was because the French citizens had backed themselves into a corner.
The French almost voted LePen in.
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08-30-2003, 03:43 PM | #155 | |
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08-30-2003, 04:30 PM | #156 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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The racism in Europe is not unknown over here - even if not all the people are "extreme-right" - it seems like many Europeans think nothing of treating the gypsies and othe rminorities as less than human. I haven't been to Germany or the areas that it seems to be the worst in - but we hear about the things that happen over there a lot of times. I jave also talked to other people on the web who have told me about it - particularly the gypsies.
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08-31-2003, 07:55 AM | #157 | ||
The Elvish Temptress
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There is something in the middle. I don't have to be a Capitalist and still can be NO communist. Quote:
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08-31-2003, 01:10 PM | #158 | |
Elf Lord
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Since when is a 4 to 1 defeat almost victory ? In the first round the vote split 38% for left-wing parties, 32% for centre/right and 19% for right-wing (Le Pen's National Front and a splinter group). The other 11% split 5% Green, 4% "Hunting, Fishing, Nature, Tradition"and 2% independent Ecologist. Le Pen only made it to the second round because the Socialist leader Jospin was so uninspiring that many French Leftists voted for other left-wing parties as a protest, figuring that in the first round it wouldn't matter- they would hold their noses and vote Jospin in the run-off. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1946937.stm So in the second round everyone else coalesced around Chirac because by French election law there was no other choice- that's what a run-off is. At no time was there the remotest possibility of Le Pen winning. You might as well say Wallace almost won in 1968 (14%)
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 08-31-2003 at 01:15 PM. |
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08-31-2003, 02:44 PM | #159 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Sure not everyone can get into Princeton - but if they have what it takes - Princeton will make sure - regardless of how much money they have - that they get in. Princeton is a private University too. I assume that Austria has private schools. Here are some web sites so you can see how education works in the US - US Department of Education National Center for Education Statistics NJ Education Indiana Education Princeton Univeristy Finacial Aid Mercer County Community College I don't know how your educational system works - but you claim to know that your educational system is better than the US's and it seems as if you don't even know anything about our educational system. Also - education has nothing to do with freedom. Freedom is doing what I want to do - as long as I'm not hurting others. I am free to go to college - but I'm not guaranteed Princeton University without a lot of hard work.
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08-31-2003, 03:05 PM | #160 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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As I said - the French didn't even want Chirac reelected - but were forced to vote for him after LePen won. I am also perfectly aware of what a run-off election is. The fact remains that LePen was voted into the run off and the French were forced to vote for Chirac. You may argue that he was not almost voted in in the final round but how many people voted for Chirac who didn't even want him?
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