06-15-2003, 02:33 AM | #1481 | |
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2.no, just not very likely.
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06-15-2003, 02:34 AM | #1482 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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06-15-2003, 03:39 AM | #1483 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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Good gods, I'm beginning to find myself siding more with Gwai on this one! And that said, well, it would be pointless to repeat what Gwai has said, so I'll just say I really like the quote from Dracula in his sig., the one from Van Helsing. I just read that part yesterday
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06-15-2003, 11:36 AM | #1484 |
Elf Lord
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Actually, I personally enjoy arguing about religion so much that most of my missionary friends try to avoid discussing it with me!
In all the old hippie houses I lived in, we used to love having JWs come to the door- get a good fiery discussion going. The best defense is a good offense. Seriously, as far as pushy proselytisers go, if you knew someone had a fatal disease, and you knew they were taking the wrong medicine, would you refrain from telling them out of politeness? That's their position- they're trying to help. You can argue with them or (courteously at first, but with more and more justified expressions of rudeness), just tell them to shove off- it's no reason to get upset.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
06-15-2003, 11:51 AM | #1485 | |
Elf Lord
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And yes, the origin of the positive sense of good in Buddhism, or Eastern thought in general, does seem to me to be a problem. Logically, they should have a more consistently neutral approach- love should be just as much an obstacle to enlightenment as hate.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-15-2003, 12:16 PM | #1486 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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2) Yeah, it's a great quote. Van Helsing rules!
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06-15-2003, 02:33 PM | #1487 | |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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2) Yeah he does! So does Mina.
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06-15-2003, 02:57 PM | #1488 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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1) Obviously.
2) Oh, yeah, Mina is AWESOME! She never was treated very well in any of the adaptations; thousand times better in the book.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
06-15-2003, 04:01 PM | #1489 | ||||||
Elf Lord
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I'm able to post a little bit in this topic, but I won't be able to for long. I've seen some interesting posts, and I'd like to respond to the most recent one that I consider quite good and expressive of different thoughts, but which I don't think has received complete responses on all of its points.
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Also, you're contradicting yourself by saying that the truth can only be found by searching scientifically. You said above-and I agreed with you-that the absolute truth will almost certainly never become completely known to us through scientific investigation. We can get a glimpse of the truth, and we can look with ever increasing clarity. However, we invariably make serious mistakes and our vision will very likely remain seriously obscured. Also I disagree that we don't know which people wrote the Bible. Only parts of it is there any uncertainty, and with the gospels, I am prepared to back that opinion up. Quote:
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You really ought to read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel if you want to gain some insight into what the evidence for Christ's existence really is. If you want to question any of the assertions I have made however, about the witnesses available, the manuscripts, or the evidence, I am willing to respond. |
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06-15-2003, 05:17 PM | #1490 |
Elf Lord
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I hope you respond today, if you're planning to respond, because after today, I'm going to be gone for about five days. Which means that there'll be too many pages for me to find your response, by the time I get back. I'm not trying to be at all impatient, just letting you know of the technical difficulties .
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06-15-2003, 05:53 PM | #1491 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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continued....
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-15-2003, 05:55 PM | #1492 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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continued...
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-15-2003, 05:57 PM | #1493 |
The Dragonqueen
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um....this doesn't quite answer,but for ONE thing,he brought my grandma back to life.She died years ago,abut since she still hada family to take care of,God let her go back to
earth to help them.The doctors were amazed,because she had,in fact,died. |
06-15-2003, 05:58 PM | #1494 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-15-2003, 06:10 PM | #1495 |
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Yeah, but that might not necessarily survive the archaeological record. Realistically, it would take extreme conditions for mere fragments to survive. If it survived for that long - unlikely - it would be VERY unlikely that the forward would survive. Take that, Mr. Pendantic Git.
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06-15-2003, 06:17 PM | #1496 | |
Elf Lord
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06-15-2003, 07:02 PM | #1497 | ||
Elf Lord
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Mmm, jerseydevil, you don't seem to have asked me what my evidence was, but assumed what it was. Which means I still have it to give .
That's wonderful about your grandma, Giroth . It's incredible what faith can do. Quote:
I completely agree that science is utterly different from blind faith. Atheists always assume that Christians rely on blind faith . Quote:
If you're going to find out about the spiritual side though, it's not very wise to go to science to look for your answers. Science can show us things about the physical. If you're going to learn about the spiritual though, it's logical that you'd have to do that by spiritual means. Not all spiritual experiences are merely "inside your head" either. I've seen pictures of New Ageists levitating off the ground. There are Christians with the gift of faith, who have been gifted with miracles. There is even evidence from several sources for Jesus' miracles. There is no reason to doubt the Biblical gospels, but the Jewish leaders (opponents of Jesus and his teachings) would have shot down his miracles if there was no evidence for them. Instead, as it says in the gospels, they saw some of the miracles themselves, as did thousands of others, so the Sanhedrin couldn't argue with their occuring. The Jewish leaders' writings from that time period say Jesus was a sorcerer. Other writings say that he practiced magic and "led many astray". The epistles also exist, supporting the gospel accounts of the Resurrection. The epistles historical validation is archaeological and attested to by documents of the period. The early accounts of Jesus' ministry and success, death on the cross, the swift spread of the church, and their message of the Resurrection are evidenced by multiple sources. Two historians of the time, Tacitus and Josephus, (who are both considered reliable by modern scholars) both briefly speak on this subject. There are Roman accounts of the early spread of the church, their message, and their willingness to undergo severe persecution for their faith. Heck, we even have corroborating accounts of the sky becoming dark at the time of Jesus' death. I'm getting rather off-topic, I realize. But in any case, I think you must see that it doesn't make sense to claim the spiritual realm doesn't exist based upon the scientific method's inability to prove it. If you're going to look at evidence for the spiritual realm, it is best to use a different way. And since you haven't sought God yourself in the way he says you must to reach him, how can you know he doesn't exist? Another evidence: Christians testify and have testified ever since the foundation of the early church as to the fact that God is accessible, and that they know him. There are books out on Prayer and its power. The fact that there are so many books out on spiritual power does say something. These authors wouldn't have such success if all they did was expose our own lacking. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 06-15-2003 at 07:03 PM. |
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06-15-2003, 07:19 PM | #1498 | |
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President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
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06-15-2003, 07:34 PM | #1499 | ||||||
Elf Lord
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Re: continued...
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With the New Testament and much of the Old Testament, the situation is totally different. The Old Testament is corroborated by Assyrian and Babylonian accounts. The Hittite civilization was discovered because of Biblical archaeological research. That's only one example- there are far more. Quote:
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Last edited by Lief Erikson : 06-15-2003 at 07:37 PM. |
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06-15-2003, 07:36 PM | #1500 |
Elf Lord
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I probably didn't give enough evidence for you to give up your atheism, but if you really want to know, you'll look at it yourself. Trying to use scientific tools to make judgements on the spiritual presupposes the nonexistence of the spiritual, and is bound to fail.
It's your choice whether or not you believe Jesus is the Son of God. Just please make sure that you've read the defenses of Christ, before you make a judgement about him. The "Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel (a former Atheist) is the book I'd advise, if you want a good idea of what there is, concerning the New Testament. For the Old Testament you'd have to go to different sources, if you're interested enough in that. But I'd actually suggest the Old Testament is less important for you to look into at first than the New Testament. |
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