02-14-2003, 07:56 PM | #721 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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Do you not think that the UN proposals to continue with intensified weapons inspections would be preferable to all-out war at this time? (Saddam cannot commit to war with so many troops gathering at his borders IMO). |
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02-14-2003, 08:02 PM | #722 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Someone yesterday had told me about this cartoon in their paper.
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02-14-2003, 08:09 PM | #723 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Also - who is going to pay the American tax payers back for the billions it'll cost us to keep our forces their idle - while Europe continues to insist on inspections? If inspectors are going to be there and the frence want them - then I think the Frence and all the other countries who think Inspections will work - they should put their troops in there to make sure that Hussein starts to comply with inspections. He has not complied in the last 5 months except piecemeal - just enough to keep some countries thinking that inspections are working. I have a feeling we'll be bombing Iraq the first week of March - time is up.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-14-2003, 08:47 PM | #724 | |||||||
Elf Lord
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But let’s face it, I’ve heard the same complaint about the Brits, French, German, and the Spanish (specially the Spanish, mind you, they are the worse, after all, they are our neighbours ) all seem to be guilty of it at the eyes of everyone else (all but the Portuguese, of course ). Quote:
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You fail to see things have changed. When you attacked Afganistan that was because your country was attacked by someone living there, someone that was in very friendly terms with the local regime. Even many Arabs accepted that that was a good cause. But what now? If you can’t even convince Europe of the need to attack Saddan, do you think the Arabs will be convinced? Like I said, the fundamentalists will appreciate your efforts. Quote:
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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02-14-2003, 09:02 PM | #725 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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France nor Germany is going to put troops in to enforce inspections. yeah - they offered their spy planes - wow - that's a lot.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-14-2003, 09:10 PM | #726 | ||
The Buddy Rabbit
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Could I have a slice of Poland with a hint of Belarouse pls?
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(The US does, after all, forsee a two year "peace keeping" US government in Iraq after the disposal of Saddam's regime). Last edited by Coney : 02-14-2003 at 09:12 PM. |
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02-14-2003, 09:14 PM | #727 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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I have a question, Jerseydevil. How come you've been complaining about Anti-Americanism in Europe? You've just said that Europe is mostly behind us. If that is true, then we should be happy for what we have.
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02-14-2003, 09:26 PM | #728 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Quote:
The Eastern European countries support the US position - as does Italy and Spain. There were the overwhelming majority of European countries who signed and took out that ad stating their support in the US position. Also - I was referring to the anti-Americanism among the people of those countries - not necessarily the governments. The Brisith people generally have a very condescending attitude towards Americans - but the government is our closest ally.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-14-2003 at 09:28 PM. |
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02-14-2003, 09:30 PM | #729 | |
High King of Númenórë
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Re: Thank Gods for Blix....
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Simply put, stability. We know that, as weak as the UN is (), it is important to have a coalition. If we act without the UN support it will show the world that the UN really means nothing (which it does) and that would be bad. Believe me, if we didn't think a coalition was necessary in the world, we definitely would have acted by now, but we are taking the chance of giving more time so we can show the UN that this is important to have the use of force available. Ultimately, we do not want to defy the UN for those simple reasons, but if we have to, we most certainly will. We don't want to defy the UN and the countries withing certainly don't want us to either, because it will just show the weakness of the UN... ok back to reading now
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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02-14-2003, 09:30 PM | #730 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Quote:
If the countries want to have a say in the government and help with the redevlopment of Iraq - they better support something in the military action front.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-14-2003, 09:38 PM | #731 | ||
Elf Lord
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Quote:
As for Putin, don’t you think he would be happy if, in the end, he can keep Russia in one piece? I really don’t believe that Putin represent a danger to Europe. So what they talked?, you may ask. About the Iraqi oil, of course. Quote:
Well, I don’t know about the Germans, but it isn’t really unlikely that the French would be willing to send troops to the region. It actually would benefit their own plans of increasing their influence there. But is also very unlikely that the subject of keeping the slow method was brought on, anyway.
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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02-14-2003, 09:39 PM | #732 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Re: Re: Thank Gods for Blix....
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02-14-2003, 09:41 PM | #733 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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If the majority of these people state that they are in favor of the U.S. position, how can we label these countries as Anti-American though? What it seems to me is that, jerseydevil, you've defended both of your statements without really addressing the contradiction. A population can't be both supportive of the U.S. and Anti-American, can it? Or are you saying that some of the European countries are Anti-American and most of them are supportive?
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02-14-2003, 09:42 PM | #734 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
They're basically a glorified humanitarian organization like the Red Cross.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-14-2003, 09:46 PM | #735 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Quote:
I obviously didn't make it clear enough since Elvellon didn't understand either. I realise the people don't stand behind the US position - that is very clear. But the US doesn't work with the people of those countries - we work with those countries' governments. It's their responsibility to deal with their citizenry. The people can be anti-American and resort to American bashing while at the same time their governments support and stand by our positions - which the majority of European GOVERNMENTS do.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-14-2003 at 09:47 PM. |
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02-14-2003, 09:46 PM | #736 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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Told you that Colin Powells lil' "presentation" wouldn't make a jot of difference didn't I? Last edited by Coney : 02-14-2003 at 09:52 PM. |
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02-14-2003, 09:49 PM | #737 |
Elf Lord
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Heya, where does Ireland stand in all this mess?
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02-14-2003, 09:51 PM | #738 | |
Elf Lord
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02-14-2003, 09:51 PM | #739 |
High King of Númenórë
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Ok here is my take on things after seeing how today unfolded in the world. Basically it is only France who is against what we want to do. Germany and Russia both say they are against action as well, however, I have inside knowledge that says they are just standing their ground currently, but will back us with whatever happens. BTW, I know people working in the government, that's where my sources are, plus living here in Washington DC helps a bit
Just to touch what JD has said about Anti-Europeanism. Americans are not against Europe, in fact everyone I know is basically just anti-france right now. I haven't heard one bad thing said about any European country besides France, that I can remember for years now, lol. I think the whole France issue is more than what it seems to be. Basically, we Americans (this is my opinion, others can agree if they want), don't hate France, we just feel like they have backstabbed us one too many times. They are our best friend when they need us, but when we need them or their backing they turn their backs on us. This point can be said about many countries as well. Let's face it, if we didn't fight in WWI, france would be no longer. If we didn't fight in WWII, france would be no longer. It is things like this when we have given up hundreds of thousands of our own lives to help France live on only to years later fight us over protecting their backyard yet again. Basically, if we didn't come in, France would now be a Soviet Socialist Republic... I mean seriously, the US hardly gets the aid we deserve for the things that we do. We are lucky to have certain time-tested friends and allies that always support us through thick and thin to back us no matter what and we would do the same. Hell, if France turned their back on us and we desperately needed them we would both go on. However, if France was attacked tomorrow, we would still aid them and they would thank us one day and slap us the next. It is this relationship that they sourly provide that has really broken the camels back between our relations this go around. In respect to North Korea. We are certainly involved and are moving troops their as we speak (insider info again ), however nuclear issues MUST be handled much more delicately than other weapons issues. Japan said today, that if North Korea even points a missile in their direction, they will immediately attack North Korea, would the US be treated the same way if we made that statement? Most definitely not! Japan, is our other top ally, people just don't know it. Our friendship is so below the radar, it is great, Japan will be a big reason for world stability in the coming 50 years, and they will be as important as Britain has been to us and vice versa. After reading many of the posts today, it really comes down to a few things. Everyone, on both sides, throw misconceived perceptions at one another, however in such times that is a good thing, because this is the essence of natural and goodly debate and solution finding. Does anyone have the right answer? Of course not. The main thing is this, and sometimes the world doesn't feel this way. The U.S. does not want to fight wars. We really don't. We DO however keep the use of force as a resort as it is necessary for countries like Iraq to comply. Like JD said earlier, if we didn't get more aggressive with the possibility of using force, do you really think we would be having any inspections right now? Of course we wouldn't! Force is a means to an end, used or not. In this case, it will undoubtly be used at some point and it will be a good thing, because like it was said earlier, we now live in a world, where preventative measures are much more important that reactive measures.... D
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
02-14-2003, 09:55 PM | #740 | |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Quote:
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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