12-27-2002, 11:29 AM | #1 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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The Quest of Beren
When Beren and Finrod set out on the Quest of the Silmaril, Beren had the Ring of Barahir. When they were captured by Sauron and he could not learn their names or purposes, where was that ring? If Beren had it with him or was wearing it at that time that would have been a dead giveaway as to their identity don't you think?
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12-27-2002, 12:25 PM | #2 |
Enting
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Maybe he sensibly secreted it about his person.
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12-27-2002, 03:40 PM | #3 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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But how could Sauron have known this Ring? Had he seen it before, did he know its history?
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12-27-2002, 03:51 PM | #4 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-27-2002, 04:06 PM | #5 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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OK, then I agree it's a mystery.
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12-28-2002, 06:30 PM | #6 |
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Sauron was not in Valinor when Finarfin was, he had fallen into evil long before.
I think there is something in the Lay of Leithien where Tolkien planned Beren to give the Ring to Finrod when he found him, and for Finrod to give it back at his death. Whatever happened, I think it is possible Sauron was not familiar with the "badge" -- it was not the symbol born by his people on banners, I know that much.
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12-29-2002, 08:04 AM | #7 |
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And anyway, even if he knew what house of the Eldar they were from, he still wouldn't know their names, nor their purpose.
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12-29-2002, 12:11 PM | #8 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-29-2002, 02:55 PM | #9 |
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If Beren had the Ring it would be harder. He would then know that Beren was a man high in favour with the people of Nargothrond, but that still wouldn't help him see who the others was.
And it also depends on how "usual" such rings were...
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12-29-2002, 07:29 PM | #10 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-30-2002, 02:27 PM | #11 |
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12-30-2002, 09:35 PM | #12 |
Elf Lord
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Janet, Thû is Thû, not Sauron. In some later version that fact must have changed, or it would not have been as you have read it in The Silmarillion.
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12-30-2002, 09:56 PM | #13 | |
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12-31-2002, 12:13 AM | #14 |
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Dylan, Thu is Sauron, but I do realize that that Lay is part of the old mythology.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
12-31-2002, 11:00 AM | #15 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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One would think that the BoLT mythos is the foundation of the SIlmarillion-it's an evolving process, not a series of unrelated stroy cycles. An interesting proof, perhaps, for evolution of other "non-mythological" story cycles.
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01-03-2003, 09:10 PM | #16 |
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They were disguised as Orcs. I don't recall Sauron seeing through Beren's disguise. Finrod broke disguise to fight him. I think Sauron just thought of Beren as one of the pack who accompanied Finrod.
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01-03-2003, 09:54 PM | #17 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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01-10-2003, 05:25 PM | #18 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Sorry for the late reply. I looked it up and confirmed that you're right, SGH. But I don't see yet why you think Sauron could have known that he was Beren from the ring.
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cya |
01-10-2003, 07:35 PM | #19 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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01-12-2003, 09:08 AM | #20 |
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I would think Sauron would know what Beren looked like, ring or no ring, after all he was sent by Morgoth to hunt him down when Beren was an outlaw in Dorthonion...
From "Of Beren and Luthien": "Thereafter for four years more Beren wandered still upon Dorthonion.....and the deeds of lonely daring that he achieved were noised abroad throughout Beleriand.....At length Morgoth set a price upon his head no less than the price upon the head of Fingon, High King of the Noldor.......Therefore an army was sent against him under the command of Sauron...."
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