11-20-2002, 03:21 AM | #201 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
In actuality - in the book Frodo DID NOT have a defining moment at the end. He was taken over by the Ring and was going to claim it for himself. The only reason it got destroyed was because gullum came and attacked him and fell into Mt Doom after he bit off Frodo's finger. But I suppose Jackson will change that too - so it's "more traditional ending". Must have the hero be the clear cut hero. I can see it - Frodo will have a defiant fit of strength. Gullum will come after him. Frodo takes the ring in his hand and tells Gullum - "you want it - go and get it!" and throws the ring into the fire of Mt Doom. Gullum runs after it and plunges to his death into Mt Doom. The "you want it - go and get it" fits in real nice with the "you want him - come and claim him". The extended version is good - but it just proves to me that all Jackson did was make a mass marketed dumbed down movie.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-20-2002, 03:28 AM | #202 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
Posts: 920
|
Quote:
__________________
Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
|
11-20-2002, 03:42 AM | #203 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Frodo, in my opinion, needed the defiant moment in the Flight to the Ford scene to show why Gandalf felt he could handle the quest. Although it's not in the movie (no surprise there), Gandalf does tell him that "I have known strong warriors of the Big People who would quickly have been overcome by that splinter, which you bore for seventeen days." Gandalf was the only one who had dealings with hobbits. Elrond didn't really understand them. It showed that hobbits were stronger than everyone thought.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 11-20-2002 at 03:45 AM. |
|
11-20-2002, 03:56 AM | #204 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
Posts: 920
|
Quote:
The movie didn't need this because it was different. PJ definately made the movie more conventional than the book. In my opinion the book is radical and revolutionary. That's why, no matter how much I like the movie, it can never compare to the book or even be compared to the book. On the other hand I don't blame PJ for playing it safe. The movie was risky enough (with it's budget) based solely on it's length and number of characters. It doesn't surprise me that PJ didn't worry about it being as innovative as the book.
__________________
Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
|
11-20-2002, 04:09 PM | #205 |
Fowl Administrator
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 53,420
|
What olsonm said - that was the defining Frodo moment of the film, when he finally manages to confront the responsibility laid before him.
(I would say that there is a similar moment earlier on, when at the Council of Elrond, he declares that he will bear the Ring further.) As for the Ford, I think that visually speaking, it would be hard to balance the extreme nature of the wound with Frodo's ability to flee and defy the Riders, because he was indeed on the verge of blacking out at that point. I think Jackson decided that instead of having mediocrity in both, he would shift the strength towards one of those instead, being the former - emphasizing the effect of the wound on Frodo. Also note that with no earlier exposition of the Lay of Elbereth, or Frodo's learning in lore, it would seem distinctly out of place for him to do it at that point, no?
__________________
All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien |
11-20-2002, 04:28 PM | #206 |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
Posts: 638
|
Yes - and it leaves us with a nice character development theme for later films. Much as Aragorn seems set to do in TTT.
|
11-20-2002, 05:32 PM | #207 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
|
|
11-20-2002, 08:03 PM | #208 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
OH NO - I can't help it - ANOTHER QUOTE from LETTERS!! ( I hope you guys aren't sick of me doing this!)
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
11-20-2002, 08:42 PM | #209 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
That was a good quote, Rian. I think it could be expanded to the knids of relationships Frodo had with the other characters as well. Would Sam have been as faithful, and able to bear the ring and then give it up had Frodo not possessed the kind of grace we see in the example cited in that quote? It is easier for the other members of the fellowship to make sacrifices themselves because of Frodo's nature.
Regarding the changes in Frodo's character I do think that the scenes at the barrow, Weathertop, and the Ford are more important in expanding his role into the realm of courage which is different than his willingness to sacrifice and risk the worst possible circumstance at the hands of Sauron. While he is sympathetic and incites "the better angels" of his companions, the lack of courage in battle weakens the Fellowship by inspiring doubt as to his ability to withstand adversity and fear. His greatest quality is his adaptability to the worst situations. His ability to act in spite of fear (courage) is something that should be displayed along the way so that the viewer is not incredulous when he walks into Mordor. There are some opportunities in TTT but it will have to ramp up too fast.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
11-20-2002, 08:58 PM | #210 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Thanks, Cirdan - do you have "Letters"? It's a great book w/ lots of good insights.
I like your thoughts on how Frodo's example helped the others to do things that they might not have been able to do otherwise.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-20-2002, 09:06 PM | #211 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Quote:
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
|
11-20-2002, 11:08 PM | #212 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 222
|
THE EXTENDED VERSION ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!
That's all I have to say, that's all I need to say.
__________________
a violinist... |
11-21-2002, 01:41 PM | #213 |
Legolas's beloved sister and Queen of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Under the hill at Bag-end, Hobbiton the Shire Or Rivendell,I can't remember!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1,086
|
I think its great
I love the bit at the begining and the sceane with Pippin and the lemba's. |
11-21-2002, 02:49 PM | #214 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
|
I watched the cast's commentary last night, and it was really enjoyable. My favorite parts: Orli talking about his "lembas commercial" (that was so funny), and Pip...er, Billy Boyd's comment at the very very end of the commentary . It was also funny hearing about the other hobbit actors playing a joke on Elijah, playing a game that didn't exist, and then a year later he asked why they never played it anymore! For a whole year he thought it was a real game! That would be like something I'd do .
Oh, and I wanted to mention that something PJ said in his commentary summed up a bit of what I felt about the movie. I really liked the movie despite the changes made to the story. PJ said that he really tried to create scenery exactly how it was in the book, and he hoped that fans of the book would at least enjoy seeing ME come to life, even if there were changes made to the story line. That is true for me, although I liked the movie for more reasons than just that. Last edited by azalea : 11-21-2002 at 02:56 PM. |
11-22-2002, 12:15 PM | #215 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
Posts: 920
|
More PJ comments
I thought it was funny when PJ would confuse the movie with the book (or just get everything wrong), like when he thought Frodo met Aragorn at Amon Hen in the book (as in the movie); and when he thought they changed something by making Frodo decide to take the Ring all the way to Mordor only at the Council of Elrond, even though that's how it is in the book. Silly absent-minded Kiwi.
__________________
Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
11-22-2002, 05:24 PM | #216 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
azalea - I'm so glad you mentioned that! I had no idea there was a running commentary on the extended version dvd! I thought you meant the "fellowship of the cast" segment, but the lembas commercial wasn't there, so I searched around and found the "commentary" option - what fun! And it sure seems like they were watching the extended version for the first time - they were saying things like "oh, look - that scene got put in !" I fast-forwarded to the lembas part, and that was funny! (the lembas commerical ) Now I just need to get some time to watch the whole thing...
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-22-2002, 07:21 PM | #217 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
I also disagree that there had to be a choice between emphasing the wound and it's affect or Frodo's strength at the end. There is a lot in the movie that isn't well explained - so I don't think that him crying out Elbereth would have mattered to non-tokien fans. Jackson needed to stress the hobbit's, and in particular Frodo's strength, but instead during most of the movie (especially the theatrical version) Frodo is weak.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
11-22-2002, 09:42 PM | #218 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
I hope you don't think ALL kiwi's are absent m----... er, what was I saying again?
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
11-23-2002, 09:24 PM | #219 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
That depends what you call weak, I think. In terms of moral strength, I think you're definitely wrong. He made the decision to go to Mordor alone, didn't he? That decision wasn't made in arrogance, it was made in self sacrifice and pure hobbit pluck and determination.
Physical strength you might have a point on, although that, to me, doesn't make any difference. He wasn't that physically strong in the books either. I don't think too many things went unexplained, either. My Dad hadn't read the books before seeing the movie, and he didn't come away any questions as to what had been going on. I doubt that anyone could do a better movie of FoTR than Peter Jackson did. |
11-23-2002, 10:58 PM | #220 |
Custous Sanctus
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In your subconsicious....
Posts: 1,184
|
is there a two towers preview on the ex DVD? if so I can't find it. can someone please help me?
__________________
I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
What insult does Gimli give in FoTR extended edition? | Beorndog | Lord of the Rings Movies | 15 | 09-24-2005 06:24 PM |
TTT extended Edition | FoolofaTook | Lord of the Rings Movies | 151 | 11-26-2004 06:49 PM |
Favorite Scenes from TTT Extended Edition... | Dúnedain | Lord of the Rings Movies | 54 | 02-03-2004 09:10 AM |
Extended edition commentary | Churl | Lord of the Rings Movies | 21 | 06-24-2003 11:04 PM |
DVD Extended Edition Surprise | LegolasRoX | General Messages | 3 | 01-04-2003 12:27 AM |