07-23-2007, 08:12 AM | #21 | ||
Elf Lord
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-23-2007, 08:43 AM | #22 |
Elf Lord
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For Turkey, I think not much, other than pushing the military further out of politics, and relaxing rules on headscarves. The AKP are strong supporters of getting Turkey into the EU, though of course some Europeans will be happy to jump on "Islamist" fears to use as a block to that.
The rise of the National Movement Party is more ominous, as it will put pressure on the government to take stronger measures against the Kurdish guerrillas using Iraqi Kurdistan as a base. Add in the referendum on Kirkuk scheduled before the end of the year and it could mean interesting times for the Kurds.
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07-25-2007, 01:46 PM | #23 |
Elf Lord
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I'm glad to finally see some statistics about perceptions of Bin Laden, suicide bombing and other from the Muslim world. Here are some:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6914959.stm
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11-14-2007, 07:21 PM | #24 |
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Look at Pakistan now.... *shakes head*
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11-15-2007, 12:47 AM | #25 | |
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11-15-2007, 02:53 PM | #26 |
Quasi Evil
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We sure walked right into this one didnt we. Serves Bush right for sighting 9/11 constantly for his political benefit. Now the leader we are in bed with is calling our bluff and doing the same thing and Bush/Cheny/Rice et al can do nothing but pretend to be concerned.
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11-15-2007, 09:21 PM | #27 |
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We needed Musharraff, and as long as he's in power, we still need him.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
11-16-2007, 10:21 AM | #28 | |
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11-16-2007, 11:40 AM | #29 |
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Right. I agree. So what's your point, exactly? That we shouldn't support any undemocratic regimes, in spite of any political needs and interests?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
11-16-2007, 12:15 PM | #30 |
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Difference between Musharraf's power grab and Saddam's dictatorship: Musharraf is a decent guy. He pushes for the rights of women.
I don't really care if it's a democracy if it means that whackos are going to be elected, which seems possible. We do need Musharraf, democracy or not. It was a false democracy to begin with, and he was in no position to really help us, as he tried to fend off extremist political rivals...not to mention the attempts on his life. I don't think Pakistan has been a very good ally--temperamentally, but we can't just pull our support willy nilly. Foreign relations stuff has to be taken case by case. There is no parallel with Saddam, or needing Saddam. I don't think I'll fret too much about human rights under Musharraf. I don't think he is a person mentally unstable like Saddam or Ahmadinejad. Under a democratically-elected Nero, there probably would be none anyways. Ataturk did what Musharraf did, and Turkey came out pretty good. I do hope Pakistan can return to Democracy, but perhaps some things need to be cleaned up first. And just for the record: however "western-minded" she might be, Benazir Bhutto is too much trouble. Besides, the charges that she was corrupt are probably true.
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11-16-2007, 02:17 PM | #31 | |
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There's no arguing that Saddam was an evil man, but from a US self-interest point of view, we were a lot better off with him in power, especially after being effective isolated and declawed after the Kuwait war. He kept the factions under control within his own country, was more or less secular, wasn't particularly supportive of terrorist groups, and provided a balance to Iran's regional power.
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11-16-2007, 02:49 PM | #32 | |||
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The real comparison isn’t Sadam but the Shah of Iran. Which is terrifying because we certainly don’t need Pakistan becoming a second Iran any time soon… But here we are again supporting someone who shuns democracy for the sake of his political gain while angry citizens find a common link to the extremists because of it and another reason to hate us.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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11-16-2007, 04:54 PM | #33 | |||||||
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(by the way, a funny political cartoon earlier this month depicted bin Laden and a henchman saying something like "time to run for President of Pakistan" ) Quote:
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Just a reminder, he WAS re-elected in a parliamentary election a few months ago. But the judges were trying to reverse his win, by forcing him to give up his status of military leader. Quote:
I can see this situation getting bad, but we're sorta stuck, as you say Rex.
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11-16-2007, 05:05 PM | #34 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 11-16-2007 at 05:07 PM. |
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11-18-2007, 09:15 AM | #35 |
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War in Pakistan... I think there are many intellectuals mobilizing who want to change the current situation.
Yesterday on the news, there was an item on lawyers organizing demonstrations in cooperation with student organizations. What concerned me more are the reports on the radicalisation of Iraq where woman are dragged out of their houses and murdered for not dressing correctly or whatever. Women who used to be able to teach at universities are now afraid to leave home and to go to their jobs.
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12-28-2007, 05:24 AM | #36 |
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Uh-oh
Not that I had any great regard for Bhutto, but she seemed like the least worst option at this time.
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12-28-2007, 10:09 AM | #37 |
Elf Lord
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Assassination is always bad news.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
12-28-2007, 06:13 PM | #38 |
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This is a political disaster for Pakistan.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
12-28-2007, 06:27 PM | #39 |
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I'm of the opinion that Benazir Bhutto was...of very bad use in Pakistan. I don't know what to make of the chaos over there right now, but my feeling is that the roots of sorrow don't go all that far.
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12-29-2007, 04:16 AM | #40 |
Elf Lord
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She stood up to Musharraff and many of the people hate him, so she rode on a wave of popular feeling. Her death made both a martyr and a hero out of her. And who knows? There may be validity to this claim that she's a hero. She did risk her life to return, and she stuck around to continue campaigning after the first assassination attempt on her life. I don't know enough about her to make any call on her character myself, though.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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