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#501 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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If we're talking about "slaughtering people in large numbers", I don't think it's either accurate or helpful to characterise Islam as being particularly violent compared with, say, our own cultures. And yes, women's rights are a big negative for me. Again, though, we should not lose sight of how recently women have emerged from vassal status in the West. Nor should we forget that not all muslim cultures are the same. |
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#502 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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Saddam was surprisingly "liberal" in that he let women get an education etc...but I'm thinking he was never a "devout" Muslim, only a devout dictator...
BTW, there was an Iraqi soldier on Savage's show recently, who said that they had to hold back Iraqis from killing each other, after Saddam's fall. He also said that a tactic they were using to get the insurgents was discouraged by upper officials because they thought it was too brutal. And this tactic was, you post soldiers in areas, and you spy on groups of people to see if they're making bombs or plans, call in a car and shoot them down. And since they stopped using this tactic, the insurgency has skyrocketed.
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#503 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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Yep, while they enjoy the freedoms of other countries; and the welfare benefits; they have "the poor me's" and blame the West.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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#504 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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I take it you are referring to immigrant communities.
I don't know if any studies have been done specifically on muslims, but a 2005 study found that in the UK, immigrants, on average, contribute more to the economy and in tax than residents do. http://www.ippr.org/publicationsandr...ion.asp?id=280 |
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#505 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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I heart you Gaffer. I heart you very much.
It's nice to see the whole 'the immigrants come here and enjoy benefits and complain about our culture' thing debunked. ![]()
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#506 | ||
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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Yes, I certainly do! Scandanavia, France and many other countries are just eeking along with huge immigration and non-intergration with society. The UK study may be so only because there are so many other groups which are NOT contributing.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 10-03-2006 at 03:24 PM. |
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#507 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Do you have a study to back that up? Because Sweden was doing just fine the last time I was there.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#508 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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I'm not here to persuade nor to debate, merely to input what I know and what I've learned from people.
I was in Norway this summer and was told by several prominent individuals that they have a serious problem as do several other Scandanavian countries.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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#509 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/08/scandislamia.html
At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe. We are in a new phase of a very old war.
a recent Swedish immigrant to the United States, who gave a first-hand account of the effects of unfettered Muslim immigration on Swedish culture. The day before that we featured translations of Norwegian articles about the expanding “no-go zones” — enclaves of immigrant lawlessness — in Oslo. Sweden is farther down the road towards Eurabia, but Norway is moving along fast enough in the same direction. The HonestThinking post expressed the fear that parts of Oslo would soon become like the Swedish city Malmö, which is notorious for its violent immigrant strongholds.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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#510 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Hey Nurv, we're up against it here.
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#511 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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Also the birth rates: in France, very few french children are born, but the Musilim immigrant birth rate is huge, compared...when all those kiddies grow up, it's going to be largely a Muslim population with the most brunt.
It has to do with the common enough liberal-european mindset: don't have children. Also, just because you contribute does not mean that you agree with the ideals of that particualr country: do the majority of Muslims who immigrate here accept the constitution at least in large part? I doubt it, mostly because you don't have to do a single backflip to get in this country anymore, much less read its important documents...which perhaps may lead to show that their immigration was for a whole 'nother reason altogether. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=18631 This is a more "rights are being trampled" article, but even then the real problem shines through... http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0224/p10s01-woeu.html
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide Last edited by hectorberlioz : 10-03-2006 at 05:45 PM. |
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#512 | ||||||||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Also, by "the most brunt" do you mean "the most clout"? Quote:
I plan on having (or adopting, if my husband and I are not physically capable) either two or three children in approximately ten years. I know that at that time, I will be physically and emotionally capable of rasing children. Meanwhile, there is another issue that Canadians and other countries who were involved in WWII have to deal with: the eventual retirement of the entire Baby Boomer generation. We need immigrants to help support our Baby Boomers in their retirement, who are approaching sixty years old. We need new immigrants to enter the work force, as well as young people like myself. Immigrants are not a drain on Canadian resources. Far from it, they are essential contributors to our government's resources and our culture. All religions and all nationalities are welcome (in theory anyway. In practice there is an increasing denial of student visas to Iranian students, according to the Ubyssey). Quote:
![]() Also, citizens born in the country don't necessarily accept everything in their constitution either. They shouldn't be thrown out, or in the case of an immigrant, denied entry. Democracy includes the freedom to disagree with elements of the coutry's laws. If their actions contravene the constitution, then there are consequences. Quote:
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As an aside, can you PM me about the Christian Science Church? There's one in my neighbourhood and I'm curious about their basic beliefs and so on. Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#513 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Okay, unfortunately I don't have any time at the moment to respond here in depth (though I'd love to), but I just wanted to pick up on a few key bits.
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This population change is also happening very strongly in England, because there also, the native British are not producing as many children, and often when they get older they travel away from their home country to other places and by houses out of country. Meanwhile, Muslim immigrants are pouring in and changing the social dynamics of the country permanently. I do believe this massive influx of immigrants will be a major problem for Europe in the long run, because they have a different culture than Europeans do (and in some very important ways, a superior culture IMO, though that's beside the point ![]() It already is difficult in France, and Europe in general is also seeing a swift growth in Islamic extremism. Those current trends are part of what I look at when I say I think this situation is going to get much worse. But another significant part of it is what Hector said: our birth rates aren't anywhere near theirs. This is also what a Muslim in Iraq said to an Iraq war veteran of my acquaintance. He said to him, "You may win some battles, but in the end, we will outbreed you."
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#514 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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Keep on with the Truth!
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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#515 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
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I found this article by Uri Avenry pretty relevant, though a bit biased (to say the least). Still, interesting:
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 10-04-2006 at 08:40 AM. |
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#516 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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This guy is flinging out one-sided rubbish. He's cherry-picking his facts and also making clear and gaping errors due to his lack of understanding of Islam and history.
I'll point out the problems in this article this evening, if I have time. Right now I have an exam to prepare for that I'll be taking in a few hours, and after that a presentation to another class. So I'll respond to this article when I return.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 10-04-2006 at 11:09 AM. |
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#517 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#518 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
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#519 | |||||||||||||
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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That does not mean that immigrants are not going to do anything however, the most culture with the most people is going to dominate; here it is Latino and Muslim, in Europe it is Muslims. That's huge, and the culture they bring with them. I think we imagine "all cultures welcome" to be some fairy land country where we all laugh > ![]() If you know the history of America, North couldn't even get along with the South! And slavery was not the only issue, believe me. Early Industrial Age, different races of immigrants fighting each other for the best jobs, mobs, mafias, Unions.... Quote:
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
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#520 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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So my advice is embrace as many differences as you can. And try to stay on the board rather then complaining about the next wave. Surfs up!
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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