12-22-2005, 09:07 PM | #101 | |
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Quote:
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12-22-2005, 09:09 PM | #102 |
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No, it doesn't, but people need to speak out against the wrongs that they see, including those in the ACLU, so hopefully they will get fixed. I don't want the ACLU eradicated entirely; but I DO think it's taken a wrong turn and I hope the publicity it's getting on some of these cases will make them reconsider.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-22-2005, 09:14 PM | #103 |
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The whole POINT of the ACLU is to speak up on OUR behalf, when one or a group of us citizens goes to this union and asks for them to intervene on our behalf to instigate change & protect our civil rights. (And this is hypothetically, and not mean, so don't get offended please, but - )If you think its so bad, then why not form your OWN union, to instigate change based upon what YOU think should be protected according to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Hypothetically, of course.
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12-22-2005, 09:19 PM | #104 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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If I think it's bad, I'll exercise my right of free speech and say so I don't have time to make my own union. But talking about things is powerful and good, IMO.
The point of the ACLU may be as you say; but MY point is that I think they have strayed quite a bit from THEIR point and I'd like to make others aware of that, and discuss it, and learn more myself.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-22-2005, 09:20 PM | #105 |
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The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.
Majority power is limited by the Constitution's Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the 13th, 14th and 15th) and the 19th Amendment (women's suffrage), adopted in 1920. The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees: * Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state. * Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin. * Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake. * Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs. We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor. If the rights of society's most vulnerable members are denied, everybody's rights are imperiled. The ACLU was founded by Roger Baldwin, Crystal Eastman, Albert DeSilver and others in 1920. We are nonprofit and nonpartisan and have grown from a roomful of civil liberties activists to an organization of more than 400,000 members and supporters. We handle nearly 6,000 court cases annually from our offices in almost every state. The ACLU has maintained the position that civil liberties must be respected, even in times of national emergency. The ACLU is supported by annual dues and contributions from its members, plus grants from private foundations and individuals. We do not receive any government funding.
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12-23-2005, 04:54 AM | #106 | |
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Is the ACLU a trade union? I thought it was a non-profit pressure group which had nothing to do with unions like the Teamsters.
On the issue of trade unions, I posted this in the Canadian elections thread a while back: Quote:
In what other ways has the ACLU overstepped its remit? |
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12-23-2005, 12:15 PM | #107 |
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Lotesse, I think RÃ*an would agree with you and me that they have a very fine mission statement. It looks like the ACLU was founded with noble intentions, and I expect that just about everyone working there still has noble intentions. The trouble is that good intentions and a good mission statement are not enough to keep people from harming our society where they intend to help.
Sometimes people that do wrong have a good mission statement, and are claiming to do what's right. For example, there have been cases where well-intentioned people have sought to build houses for the poor, but then the poor cannot afford to maintain the houses they've built for them. Also, sometimes, to build those houses, the closely packed slums are bulldozed, so people are left without homes for the sake of a few with better homes. So the good intentions and good mission statement can turn out bad results. My point is just that good intentions and a good mission statement do not prove anything. Actions speak louder than words. So the merits and faults in the actions must be examined, rather than the merits and faults in the words. The words you presented have a lot of merit .
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12-23-2005, 01:08 PM | #108 | ||
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I've been following this thread with great interest. I've been a "card-carrying member" of the ACLU for nearly 20 years. *eyes potential McCarthys in the audience with concern*
From what I understand (and it's certainly possible I've misinterpreted things), the ACLU does NOT hold a position in favor of the prohibition of private holiday displays, only those that are erected and placed on public or government property. As far as I know, they have not sought injuctions against any privately run commercial enterprises using religious terminology in their advertising or marketing campaigns, nor against individuals erecting religious displays on private property. here's a bit on the ACLU and religion from Wikipedia (bolding mine) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACLU#Notable_Cases Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Hasty Ent : 12-23-2005 at 03:33 PM. Reason: muddy and unclear language |
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12-23-2005, 02:33 PM | #109 |
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YAY!! Finally someone pro-ACLU steps up. And that's exactly it, if they're trying to keep Christian religiosity out of government, out of government property, then that is a very necessary and good thing. What Hasty Ent says here:
(quote, Hasty Ent) "From what I understand (and it's certainly possible I've misinterpreted things), the ACLU has NOT prohibited private holiday displays, only those that are erected and placed on public or government property. As far as I know, they have not sought injuctions against any privately run commercial enterprises using religious terminology in their advertising or marketing campaigns, nor against individuals erecting religious displays on private property. "
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12-23-2005, 02:39 PM | #110 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Booooooooo!
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12-23-2005, 03:11 PM | #111 |
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Whatever.
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12-27-2005, 10:58 AM | #112 | |
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Quote:
good quote hasty
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12-27-2005, 08:27 PM | #113 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-27-2005 at 08:34 PM. |
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12-27-2005, 08:52 PM | #114 |
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Rian, that is exactly how slavery was defended you know.
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12-27-2005, 08:53 PM | #115 |
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elaboration, please
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-27-2005, 09:04 PM | #116 |
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populism - basically what you described in your post.
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12-27-2005, 09:23 PM | #117 |
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thinking murder is wrong is a popular opinion too, isn't it?
Sorry, no go.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-28-2005, 09:57 AM | #118 | |
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Quote:
and why should public money be spent on decorating anyway?
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12-28-2005, 12:02 PM | #119 | |
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12-28-2005, 02:21 PM | #120 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
I think things have gone from the minority being protected from wrong actions of the majoritiy, to the minority taking wrongful advantage of the good will and tolerance of the majority. I mean, if an atheist is truly, truly traumatized by the display of a manger scene on public property, then I seriously think they need counseling. What, aren't they aware that Christmas is celebrated by over 90% of the people in this country? The government is BY the people, FOR the people. If 90% of the people think a manger scene is appropriate on public property, then put one up! And if 2% want a Hannukah display, then put one up, too. And if 1% want a Kwanzaa display, then put one up, too. But if 1% don't think ANY display should be up, then I don't think they should be able to trample on the other people's wishes, since it is NOT against any law or right. I think those people are selfish bullies, in general; hiding behind the good will of the vast majority of Americans and taking advantage of their tolerance. Why should one selfish, grumpy person cancel a whole party for everyone else? Ask for a display that YOU like to be put up along with the others, or have the good grace and tolerance to let other people enjoy theirs and be quiet. And I"m not aware of a "right" to not have to look at decorations that your community puts up, so I don't see how my suggestion destroys an individual's "right". I'd tell those people - go get a real life. Go spend your time campaigning for people that are REALLY hurting. Having to look at a Christmas decoration in a country where over 90% of the people celebrate Christmas is NOT a real hurt, and it's NOT an establishment of religion. It IS, however, prohibiting the free exercise thereof, IMO.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-28-2005 at 02:25 PM. |
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