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12-12-2004, 11:50 PM | #841 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Thanks for the report, Inked! I watched one of Flew's debates on television, and it was really neat stuff. I find it truly fascinating to see this change, and I'm very glad you've let us know .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
12-13-2004, 06:18 AM | #842 | ||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Crap... break over... will answer later!
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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12-13-2004, 01:27 PM | #843 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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12-13-2004, 02:27 PM | #844 | |||||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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one must remember that theories involving things like our universe are themselves based upon theories and assumptions... there were some very accurate and exacting theories when it was thought the sun was the center of our solar system... so accurate that predictions of planetary movement, while not perfect, were extremely good... it was not until the system was thrown out that an even better "sun centric" theory was developed... the same could easily be true about today's theories of the universe Quote:
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humans like to think it does, 'cause it makes us feel special... kind of like "mini-creators"... but in the end i think it is time that creates complexity Quote:
multi-dimensional space and an infinite universe are a few examples of this... we can't put our minds around it, so we impose limits and try to shape theories that fit within those limits Quote:
to be continued...
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-13-2004, 02:40 PM | #845 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-13-2004, 03:05 PM | #846 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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12-13-2004, 03:11 PM | #847 | |||||||||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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we try to understand the world around us because we have the ability to observe, learn and theorize... but it is always important to remember that we are limited by our ability to "perceive"... as i've mentioned, there many be many forces in our universe... not necessarily limited to "god"... that we have not yet "perceived", but have a huge effect on why things act as they do Quote:
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belonging to and promoting any given group, no matter how benevolent that group's outlook has a tendency to alienate those outside it, whether intentional or not... and when tension arises, one tends to support one's own group and view the other side in a more negative light, even if facts might point otherwise on religion specifically... i tend to think about the philosophy of it and not the "divine source" behind it... i think one can easily read the koran, the bible, or any other religious text and say "there's a lot of good advice in there to live by", while at the same time not be required to buy the belief system Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-13-2004, 03:15 PM | #848 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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i said there is no intelligence behind the creation of the universe... no creator... (i.e. it just happened... or maybe has always existed) that said, there are creatures within it (i.e. us) who can think about these things and theorize about them... we label this "intelligence"
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-13-2004, 03:18 PM | #849 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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they don't understand the time scale that has allowed such a structure to develop things don't have to become complex, but they can
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-13-2004, 03:21 PM | #850 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
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12-13-2004, 03:57 PM | #851 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-13-2004, 04:20 PM | #852 | |
Lady Tipple & Queen of Blessed Thistle
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I've been told it's all in my head
Posts: 916
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Certainly there is chance for anything to appear, but the 4th law of Thermodynamics goes a long ways in saying "nope, not going to build anything today, thank you). (as long as Philosophy is trying to answer the basic unanwered scientific questions there'll be contention among the masses) Time is reference, and whether the scale is tremendous or quite imaginable gives nothing more than just that. I agree, in part now that I think about it, that as "present" or the "this actual moment" may be the more true nomenclature of time, it doesn’t satisfy the need in our short lives for beginning and destination (if hopeful). Manipulation, Referencing, and Perception (both group / individual) are interesting go-arounds about 'time' . . . real time wasters, lol . Linear timelines are only another perspectives, circular and chaotic (mathematics) are a couple of others.
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Beer + Pizza = N'uff said Happy to be here The HACBR has been alerted to my postings…..Hobbits Against Constant Beer References Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Ben Franklin I want my Mooter T-Shirt! |
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12-13-2004, 05:26 PM | #853 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-13-2004, 05:28 PM | #854 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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12-13-2004, 05:37 PM | #855 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
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Kant! Is he related to Karl?
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
12-13-2004, 05:37 PM | #856 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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NO! BoP! You can't
talk about Kant or even cant as in a rant! NO! BoP, no pant Or pants you can't nor even rant!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
12-13-2004, 05:57 PM | #857 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
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but...
We want, we want to speak of Kant! :; |
12-13-2004, 10:01 PM | #858 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Kant and Hume
were in a room With a poet - How did they get there? Will they exist there? We'll never know it! (sorry, long day - field trip with 6 kids in the car! )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-13-2004 at 10:29 PM. |
12-14-2004, 03:28 PM | #859 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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Brownie, do you relate closest with Buddhism or another religion and why?
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
12-14-2004, 03:58 PM | #860 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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that said, i tend to like buddhism because it centers on the self... salvation does not come from worship, or from external forces... it comes from finding peace within yourself of course, there are christian sects that basically follow this train of thought... while there are buddhist ones that have a tendency to "deify" buddha himself... which takes away from the words as i see it i guess that is my main reason for being rather ecclectic... i have no "faith", and am arrogant enough to say "if a moral stance is truely good for society, you best be able to prove why in everyday terms"
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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