10-07-2004, 01:44 PM | #201 | |
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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10-07-2004, 01:59 PM | #202 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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My take on it was very similar to Finrod's. Immortal folk have to be careful when they have relationships with mortals, and have to judge things to a nicety. Andreth is speaking out of a more selfish wish to have her beloved, though it might have worked to the detriment of all. It is not like having a dog or cat, who have a much shorter lifespan thna we do. There is grief at the parting but it would be much worse for an Elf, especially since they do not remarry, save in one celebrated instance. Aegnor's insticts would have been all against it, especially since Elves usually do not marry or have children in times of danger or strife, which this certainly was. I wonder what Aegnor thought of it when he reached the Halls of Mandos. Would he want to be reincarnated? Would he marry an Elf, then?
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
10-07-2004, 03:54 PM | #203 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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I don't know that Andreth is speaking in a selfesh way, but in a way that she feels is the way it should be from her "side of the sunderring doom." Little does she realize, although she would like to think, that Men had less control over their emotions and choices, as they were more easily tempted by what could have been and the loveliness of it that they hoped to come from it, rather than the reality of what end it could come to. Aegnor would not have re-thought his position about returning from the halls of Mandos. Finrod makes that plain. He loved Andreth, and chose not to return because he wanted no other, and I get the impression, out of devotion to his love for her he would not in her honor, so to speak.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-07-2004, 06:44 PM | #204 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Do you get that strong sense of "place" that I described, SGH? (and others)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-07-2004, 06:46 PM | #205 | |
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(well, I guess Finrod came from "that", too, so it wasn't all bad!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-07-2004, 08:13 PM | #206 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-08-2004, 12:45 PM | #207 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Yes, and I can hear the fire and see the shadows on the wall ... can you?
(what a writer!) comments on the death thing for humans coming up ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-08-2004, 01:00 PM | #208 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-08-2004, 01:27 PM | #209 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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We need a "thud" smiley. Do you paint, SGH? I draw, and can well imagine the scene. The difficulty would be not making it too dark, which is just gloomy, and emphasizing the firelight and the shadows on faces, emphasizing the age of Andreth and the perpetual youthfulness yet sadness, of Finrod's. I would put them on opposite sides of the fire, yet not too far apart not to touch. The shading would be less difficult in that case.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
10-08-2004, 01:34 PM | #210 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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EDIT- Oh yeah, a "thud" smiley and a "drool" smiley too.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-08-2004, 01:37 PM | #211 | |
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Christianity views 'human wisdom' as flawed. I think it's entirely possible that the wise among the First Age humans might have held a belief like this - that they would have been as immortal as the Elves if they had not been corrupted by Morgoth - even if it was completely wrong.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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10-08-2004, 02:00 PM | #212 |
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Andreth actually refused to discuss this point with Finrod, considering him a stranger or outsider. I think Finrod tried to relate to her though, that in the end it would appear that humans were the immortal ones since they would go beyond and live again, where as the Elves died when the world died, so they were only immortal within Arda. In the story though, neither have a real answer, but speculation drives their conversation concerning mortality and I think it is the third theme of Music. Finrod believes, or wants to believe that at that time, they (Men and Elves) will be brought together on more even grounding so to speak. Men would be the Lordly ones and the Elves would be something like to what Men were in Arda, but they would all live and dwell together forever. Not sure if I explained it the way I wanted to. It's such a deep and complex story.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
10-08-2004, 02:05 PM | #213 | |
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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10-08-2004, 02:09 PM | #214 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-08-2004, 03:03 PM | #215 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I think that is an important point, that so many Men and Women tend to envy the Elves, but they view themselves as more or less condemned to stay behind when Mankind will go on to something grand, exciting, and truly immortal. The good ones, anyway. In the seminal "On Fairy Stories," JRRT suggests that the "Human Stories" of the Fairies might be concerned with Escape from Deathlessness, and the Atrabeth is the culmination of that line of thought.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
10-08-2004, 06:56 PM | #216 | ||
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*STOP it, JRRT, STOP it! You're messing with my mind!* Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-08-2004, 06:59 PM | #217 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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"You WILL buy it this weekend. You WILL buy it this weekend!" It's really quite a read, Val, and as fellow Christians (along with Tolkien) there's lots of good stuff we can identify with in the appendicies, too. I really like the first Voice part ... (have I intrigued you yet?)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-09-2004, 08:55 AM | #218 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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*makes mental note to rush right out and buy it this weekend*
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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10-09-2004, 03:02 PM | #219 | |
Elven Loremaster
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10-11-2004, 03:42 PM | #220 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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But they're fascinating ... IMHO
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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