12-27-2003, 08:17 AM | #161 | |
Bard of Mangled Songs
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
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12-27-2003, 02:47 PM | #162 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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My review of Return of the King?
One word: PATHETIC!!!!!! It was such a pale shadow of the book, and unnecessarily so. The changes to the characters and story line, again, were not needed, and the changes detracted from the story which the film was trying to tell. Denethor? Puh-LEAZE!! Guess Jackson is too facile to be able to portray such a complex character, so he opts for turning this grand lord into a belching, cowardly, base pig. Interesting how Faramir and Boromir in the film sprang from THIS loon's drawers! No Gandalf v. Witch King at the gates of Minas Tirith? NEEDLESS editing of the story! Can you honestly tell me that what ended up on the screen at that point was in ANY way more exciting than the original story? And why no Houses of Healing? The Black Breath? Can you honestly say that this would not have added to character depth, even to the by-then misshapenly morphed Aragorn? And oh crud could you ever write such a ho-hum appearance of the Black Ships at Pelennor? And the handy mechanics of wrapping up the siege by a bunch of ghosts meleeing pell-mell throughout the Citadel? And why, oh why, the abandonment of the story arc with Frodo's mithril shirt and Sting ending up in the hands of the Mouth of Sauron? Why in the hades have Samwise even AGREE to turn back and abandon Frodo to the wiles of Stinker/Slinker? All this adds up to is that Peter Jackson, in his pumped-up hubris, fantasized about being a better storyteller than the greatest storyteller of the twentieth century, and then went out and gathered the funds to support his dream. He took these masterfully crafted books and tore out whole sections, threw in freshly-written retellings and filmed the whole thing. The result? A pathetic, glossy, hollow, beautiful, choppy let-down, a tawdry, farcical sham perpetrated upon not only the millions of true Tolkien fans, but upon an unsuspecting public which now walks away from the theaters with only a slight-but-still-distorted impression of the true beauty of this most detailed universe created by a master of the works of English literature. I've said it before: I still hold out hope that some day, someone comes along and makes the REAL film of The Lord of the Rings. Only then will the rest of the public realize what we mooters already know to our everlasting dismay: Peter Jackson is a buffoon and his films are a joke. Mr. Bakshi, you have company......
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
12-27-2003, 02:58 PM | #163 |
Mirthful Maiden
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Well, we already knew you wouldn't like the movie before you saw it, but I'm curous to know if there is anything at all which you did like in the films?
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12-27-2003, 03:12 PM | #164 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
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Yes.
For the most part, the locations were expertly chosen, and I really liked the visualization of many of the Middle Earth locations, especially Minas Tirith and Cirith Ungol/Minas Morgul. The Battle of the Pelennor fields was, with the above-noted exceptions, phenomenal. The visualization of the Witch-King of Angmar was top-notch. Gee, now do you have to point out things you hated about the movie since I've answered your challenge? That would be only fair, n'est-ce pas?
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 12-27-2003 at 03:35 PM. |
12-27-2003, 03:22 PM | #165 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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12-27-2003, 03:53 PM | #166 | |
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12-28-2003, 04:30 PM | #167 |
Elf Lord
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I missed Gandalf's confrontation with the Witch-King, and Mouth of Sauron. But I hear that Gandalf vs Witch-king will be in EE, and a rumor that Mouth will be too. Guess I will just have to wait till next November.
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I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris |
12-28-2003, 06:16 PM | #168 |
Long lost mooter
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I saw it again the other day, and I have to say I enjoyed it more the second time. Aside from the fact that I wasn't sick any more, I guess I was prepared for the changes/ omissions (not that they were as bad as those in TTT anyway). I came away from the theater feeling satisfied, and that it was a well done movie version of RotK. My criticisms remain, but my enjoyment of it deepened.
Regarding Shelob, one thing that bothered me there was Sam's posture when he sticks her. That chapter is my favorite episode of the trilogy, and my image will always be Sam planting his feet firmly apart and sticking Sting straight up above his head as Shelob plops herself downwards. It played out differently in the movie, but I'll admit it's not a make or break kind of change. I do want to see it again before it leaves theaters, because both times I had to sit right up front because the theater was so crowded, and I'd like to have a big screen viewing of it where the angle is a little better. |
12-28-2003, 06:35 PM | #169 | |
Spammer of the Happy Thread
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Right now I'm watching a socumentary on how they made the film. There has been so many of those on TV the last few days! It's kind of interesting, but the documentaries focus more on the cast than the movie. Now I can't wait until the EE comes!! But I'm going to die if I'll have to wait for 11 months..
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12-28-2003, 11:04 PM | #170 | |
Mirthful Maiden
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One other thing I noticed on the second viewing: As Gollum tosses the lembas off the cliff, it is dispersed as it falls to the ground. When Sam reaches the bottom of the stair, the lebas seems to be piled right in front of him. It would not have landed there. I just thought it was kind of ridiculous. But seeing it for the second time was almost better. I was able to catch more little details and this time I could just relax without worrying about horrible changes being made. I do love this movie.
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The Elves represent, as it were, the artistic, aesthetic, and purely scientific aspects of the Humane nature raised to a higher level than is actually seen in Men.~ J.R.R. Tolkien Wanna play? www.thievesguild.com |
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12-29-2003, 06:10 AM | #171 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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I saw it again last night, and the impact was not lesser this time. It is an impressing movie. Never before have I experienced grown men crying in a theatre.
Some people here have said the battle scenes were too blurry. I do not agree. I think it was a good way to depict the chaos of the battlefield. But, I'm still buggered by Gandalf's way of handling Denethor, and the way in which he took command over the men of Gondor. Hubby called it a coup d'Etat, and I have to agree with him.
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12-29-2003, 11:14 AM | #172 |
Elf Lord
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About Bag End...
You could see that there was Bag End's door, and then a red door that Sam and his kids and (this is hard to admit) yes, that evil Rosie used also. It looked as if the red door conected into Bag End, and was just another way to get in. The question then would be: why didn't PJ just let them use the door that Frodo and Bilbo used? I don't know if the red door even connected into Bag End, that's just a guess, but after seeing it four times, you sorda think that it may connect into it, don't you? Well, if you can find it in a trailer, or pictures, or next time you go to the theater, look for it, and tell me what you think!
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Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES! |
12-29-2003, 01:31 PM | #173 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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I actually thought it wasn't supposed to be Bag End - since there's no mention of Rosie and Sam moving in with Frodo in the movie.
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12-29-2003, 04:05 PM | #174 |
Long lost mooter
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No, that wasn't Bag End. If they had intended for it to be Bag End they would have made it obvious, by filming it from the front just like it had been before. I guess it would have added too much for them to include the fact that they all lived there.
One thing I forgot to add in my last post was that upon my second viewing, I noticed that the main problem I had was in the first hour (approx.). I think it was all the time spent on the Gollum tricks Frodo/ Frodo sends Sam away thing that was the difficulty. I think they should have gone into Shelob much more quickly, then they could have included more that happened later on (in Cirith Ungol and the episode with the orc battalion, or more of them crossing Mordor), that way they still have plenty of scenes with Sam and Frodo, but it would have been "tighter," IMO (and of course closer to the book ). |
12-29-2003, 04:29 PM | #175 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Did anyone else almost bust out laughing at Aragorn's first line when he addresses the troops about to storm the Black Gate? His voice is very strong and nice further into the speech (and he has a nice voice) but the first line sounds like he just inhaled from a helium balloon ... His voice did this at several other points in the 3 movies - it gets kinda high-pitched and like his throat is constricted. It was unfortunate it happened at this speech, too - it made it sound comical!
Yes, I missed the Mouth of Sauron part too - and they really missed out on a suspenseful part, IMO - when Gandalf & co. see the mithril shirt and they think Frodo is prob. dead... I've seen it twice now, and the Charge of the Rohirrim is incredible! And Sam, when he carries Frodo.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-29-2003, 05:15 PM | #176 | |
High King of Númenórë
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Charge of the Rohirrim is probably one of the best scenes I've ever seen in a movie...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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12-29-2003, 05:21 PM | #177 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-29-2003, 05:22 PM | #178 |
Elf Lord
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I saw the movie again today, and so I have to disagree with myself, the part with Sam, Rose, Frodo II, and Elanor at the end didn't look like it was a part of Bag End this time. So where did they live, and who got the house? Stupid PJ!
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Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES! |
12-29-2003, 06:57 PM | #179 | |
Elven Warrior
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12-29-2003, 08:39 PM | #180 |
Elf Lord
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YAY!
I´ve finally seen it (twice!). And what can I say, but it´s the end (nearly, RotK EE AKA the last-gasp money maker) of nearly 3 years of going ´nice film, shame about the adaptation´. I honestly think this is the worst of the 3 films. The story bore so little in relation to the original material it´s truly astounding. OK, so I liked: - The scenery and cities - The battle (I R sucker for CG) - in particular when the Rohirrim charged I were rather moved - The few lines kept in from the book - No farting or burping jokes Disliked: - Pretty much everything else, but to be more specific... - Legolas as chimpanzee and ultra-gay twat - The rather extended role of the green weirdos. - Denethor, nuff said. - Sauron doubling as a lighthouse. - Shelob. Just a big spider. - The ending(s). too long for not enough impact. If I hear anyone else say they´ll give PJ the luxury of the endings I´ll scream. - Saruman - palantir utter crap. - Ugly orc chief I dunno... As a film, I enjoyed it. Some bits in particular stirred me more than I thought possible. Gandalf´s ascension of Minas Tirith was as close as I could possibly have hoped to my imagination. As was the charge of the Rohirrim (even if the negative ´death´aspect was actually part of their second charge in the book IIRC). Both these scenes moved me enough to be wiping tears from my eyes (which amused my GF no end!). As an adaptation I was cringing. So many missed oportunities from such a marvellous book, and we get this :/ PJ´s ego must only be matched by his bank balance and stomach fat. Did anyone else think that PJ had more than a slight homage in his ghosts to the frighteners by the way? He's a bit of a one-trick pony when it comes to stuff he´s already done before. But really, what´s the pont in going through it bit by bit destroying the film? Anyone who has read the books knows that the only person in history to match PJ´s butchery was Attila the Hun. It actually makes me wonder if he´s read the books from cover to cover, or (in the words of Alan Partridge) ´read a bit a researcher highlighted in yellow´. Full marks to Viggo who acted his little heart out and saved Aragorn from being a badly re-written coward with no sense of nobility, and raised him to the lofty heights of a badly re-written but passionately portrayed would-be King. Theoden is still my main man, I loved all his scenes and he acted wonderfully. As for Gandalf, don´t EVER annoy that man when he has his staff around. How Pippin avoided repeated beatings) especially in FotR) I do not know. OK, now to wait another 10 years or so for the PROPER version of LotR. Oh oh! Final gripe! Extremely annoyed to watch the film and so obviously be able to point out where important scenes were cut specificially for the EE (their last chance to milk the cash-cow for now). I mean, PJ didn´t even bother to tie up the film properly around the scenes. This really made me feel like part of a huge marketing machine. Of course, this is kind of inherent, but for FotR and TTT I was at least able to forget it while I watched the films. Not so this one. Crude manipulation at it´s most obvious... |
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