11-11-2003, 12:55 PM | #121 | |
Lord of the Pants
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Did you people not notice that I qualified my statements with "MOST", or that I specified texts only? Rian, I KNOW that the current lot of texts will suffer from revisionism ... that's how it works. Which is why it is generally better to use more contemporary texts in conjunction with the primary texts. (well, it's always better to go with primaries, rather than secondaries anyway, then you can make your own judgements...) Guillaume, I did archaeology as my major, so I'm quite familiar with the need to stick with current articles. |
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11-11-2003, 01:16 PM | #122 | ||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-11-2003, 01:38 PM | #123 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Sorry Sheeana - and anyone else who missed my tone. The "trust no book under 30" thing was meant purely in jest. Cultural reference to the US youth movement of the 60's & 70's that said "Trust no one under 30"
[EDIT: thought I was clever until I realized I was misunderstood!] I suspect some of the other responses to your statement were also made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Last edited by Valandil : 11-11-2003 at 02:36 PM. |
11-16-2003, 11:48 PM | #124 |
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Valandil, I thought that was "trust no one OVER 30"
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11-17-2003, 10:17 AM | #125 |
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WHOOPS! You're right! I said (wrote) it right the first time but did it wrong just above. Sorry... mind must be going multiple directions...
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11-17-2003, 11:16 AM | #126 | |
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Perfect example- everybody got the point even though it was exactly the opposite of what you actually said. 'Course then there's always people like Ruinel...
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11-18-2003, 09:46 PM | #127 | |
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Hey, I wasn't sure. I've never used that saying, but I've heard it somewhere. So, I could have been mistaken. |
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11-20-2003, 09:16 AM | #128 | |
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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12-02-2003, 02:54 PM | #129 | |
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12-02-2003, 05:23 PM | #130 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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What's up? Is today "Ruinel's Resurrection Day for Old Threads"???
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12-02-2003, 05:59 PM | #131 |
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Yeah, that's what I was wondering, too!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-02-2003, 07:19 PM | #132 | |
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12-02-2003, 08:08 PM | #133 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Hey, I have 7 questions waiting for a thoughtful response from anyone over on the GLB thread
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-03-2003, 04:29 AM | #134 | |||||||
Elf Lord
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Re: Monarchy and Slavery
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However, in the past the power of the monarch was absolute. When I say this, I'm making another of the quotes from the World Book that I'm always making . Quote:
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Many times kings have behaved absolutely brutally to their people. Even in modern times, we can see governments doing the same thing. Look at India and the caste system. Those people are living in a status of abject poverty and are forced to remain as they are. As I quoted before, from the World Book, monarchies in the past gave absolute power to the monarch, over his people. Monarchies are one kind of rulership which can hold a country in slavery. Other kinds of governments can do the same thing. Quote:
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12-03-2003, 04:32 AM | #135 |
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I realize that was a very incomplete post. In many areas, I don't provide it with sufficient backing. Alas, it's very late right now where I live, so I don't have time to give it the depth I should.
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12-04-2003, 03:01 AM | #136 | |
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We are definitely looking at the same coin, but at two different sides. I can’t disagree with any of your comments, because they all contain certain truths about the historical reality of life in the Middle Ages. I don’t think anyone today would be willing to jump back in time to a day when people could die of a really bad case of the runs. However, there were aspects of medieval culture and society that were humane, and even better, than some aspects of our modern culture and society. One of those aspects is the communal nature of medieval life, something that we certainly could learn much from to our benefit.
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This, however, I admit is a generalization, and does not take into account the abuses, that equally fill court records. It should be noted, however, from these records, that what was being dealt with were circumstances that were contrary to custom. What we find in these primary sources is a greater degree of freedoms than we might expect, even some advantages... freeholders could hold land without fee, in other words they could actually purchase land for their own use without having to promise service outside of what they owed in the form of boons (which they would have to perform regardless of holding property or not)... in this we have the emergence of freehold tenure. On the other hand, nobles could only hold land by fee, by pledging their service to a suzerain. It can be argued that the difference is merely an academic one, but in point of fact, the peasant freeholder was more free to use his smaller portion of property to his personal benefit, than the noble was able to use his larger portion of property to his personal benefit. Another advantage was the ability to marry whomever you might choose... a luxury that very few nobles enjoyed. Abuses against peasants seldom came from manor lords, but from injuries incurred in disputes between peasants, both freedmen and villein. When peasants were abused by nobles, this was almost always due to the consequences of war, where peasant property was generally ransacked, stolen and burned to ash, men, women and children slaughtered. This policy was particularly destructive in northern Italy in the late Middle Ages. However, it should be born in mind that such practices were not primarily aimed at making the lives of the poor miserable (though in fact it did, a fact of which the perpetuators were well aware), but by decimating the works and the workers both present and future, an invading force could do an immeasurable amount of damage against its enemy by undercutting its enemy’s resources for years to come. (This, of course, is not to take away from the monstrosity of medieval slash and burn strategy that did far more harm to the peasants than to their lords.) In addition we see dramatic increases of rents into the 14th century and the later Middle Ages. This happened because of three factors: 1. the decreased population due to the plagues of the 14th century dramatically decreased the amount of production and thus decreased the amount of available capital; 2. the increasing level of technology used in the wars of Italy and the Hundred Years War incurred an equal increase in the amount of capital required to field late medieval armies; 3. increasingly the manor lord was absent from the manors under his (or her) control, and new forms of income were utilized by taking advantage of the growing urban industries as opposed to agrarian industries. These circumstances--increased rents, a decreased pool of available labor, and a nobility increasingly indifferent to the plight of their subjects working the fields--set the stage for the Peasant’s Revolt of 1381, and the literary backdrop for Piers Plowman. However, to judge medieval society based solely on its weaknesses and on the problems that surfaced in its waning years, without taking into account the advantages it afforded medieval peoples, is a bit unfair. After all, I can paint a very inhumane and gross picture of modern western society by only taking into account its weaknesses and all the problems that are surfacing in these waning years of western technological and economic dominance. (Did my bias just come out?). Wow, you know you have written way too much when you can't post the whole thing at one time!
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12-04-2003, 03:07 AM | #137 | |||
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Regards, Dave
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Miserable mourning is never the equal of noble action; nor are rest and relaxation as good as war, trouble and action. --Bertran de Born, Knight and Troubadour Castle Duncan |
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12-04-2003, 03:21 AM | #138 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Re: Re: Monarchy and Slavery
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Magna Carta I have always especially liked this one... Quote:
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12-04-2003, 04:06 AM | #139 | ||||
Elf Lord
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However, this doesn't seem to me a very good example of your point. This is because Edward would have decided to do give these priviledges to the people on his own. He didn't have to, but he chose to. Quote:
Insidious Rex would probably say that we are all absolute slaves to our genes, though I disagree with him . Slavery all has different kinds of forms and levels. Quote:
There's one example. I am not convinced that slavery in ancient Israel was extremely terrible either, really. I'll have to think about it some more. Quote:
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