did sam go to Valinor???

[matthew]

After reading the LotR, one of my biggest questions has been if sam did go to valinor. I mean, tolkien didnt leave much hanging, but the only clue was frodo mysteriously saying " your time may come". so for a long time I had no idea. but now,after finishing the war of the ring, i feel like tolkiens intended epilogue did imply sams eventual departure. But i still want to hear everyone elses opinion on this.

[Wayfarer]

Yes.

[Arien the Maia]

yeah he went to Tol Eressea after he had been mayor of the Shire for like the 7th time or something like that....I think the Appendices explain it better than I did

[matthew]

the appendices say???
I never saw that!!!
Im opening my copy of ROTK as i type!
ohh goodie!

[matthew]

Dang it your right he did.
and its right in the tale of years too. i must have read that at some point.
oh the embarrasment.

[Attalus]

LOL, don't wrry. On a board like this, you'll see all of us commit some howlers.

[Thorin II]

As long as we're on the subject, what happens to mortals that go west? I assume Gimli, Frodo, Bilbo, and Sam all died eventually. Is that right?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Thorin II
As long as we're on the subject, what happens to mortals that go west? I assume Gimli, Frodo, Bilbo, and Sam all died eventually. Is that right?

Yes...all mortals that go west...which is basically only the ringbearers and Gimli will die b/c that is their fate. The one Man who went West was Tuor and I believe Iluvatar allowed him to be joined with the Eldar b/c of his love for them and for his wife Idril.

For Frodo,bilbo and sam the passage west was for healing and they eventually died...note that they never set foot upon Aman but stayed in Tol Eressea only.

[Thorin II]

Thanks, Arien. That's what I thought.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Thorin II
Thanks, Arien. That's what I thought.

sure! anytime!

[LutraMage]

I wonder if Smeagol had survived, would he have been allowed to 'go west' and would he have healed?

[Wayfarer]

He, at least, seems to think he would have died instantly when the ring was destroyed.

[Thorin II]

I suspect Gollum would've died after the Ring was destroyed (immediately or shortly thereafter). Even if he hadn't, I doubt he would've been allowed to sail West. While he was technically a Ringbearer, I think the term is intended to refer to those who carried the Ring on the quest to destroy it. Bilbo didn't exactly do so, but he did bring the Ring to the Shire and pass the Ring to Frodo to start the process.

[gimli7410]

Originally posted by Thorin II
As long as we're on the subject, what happens to mortals that go west? I assume Gimli, Frodo, Bilbo, and Sam all died eventually. Is that right?

gimli ruled the caves of helms deep and became the lord of the glittering caves. and i know sam went to grey havens cuz he was once a ring bearer.

[Wayfarer]

As long as we're on the subject, what happens to mortals that go west? I assume Gimli, Frodo, Bilbo, and Sam all died eventually. Is that right?

They 'burn out' and die quickly (though they certainly enjoy themselves in the meantime.)

[matthew]

I'm a gollum redemption fan. he should've gone west anyway.
I thought the saddesst part of pjs movie of TT was sam abusing gollum when he was so close to recovery. BooHoo.

[Dúnedain]

There is more to it as well, this is from the Appendices:

In year 61 of the 4th age:
Death of Mistress Rose, wife of Master Samwise, on Mid-year's Day. On September 22 Master Samwise rides out from Bag End. He comes to the Tower Hills, and is last seen by Elanor, to whom he gives the Red Book afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is handed down from Elanor that Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens, and passed over the Sea, last of the Ring-bearers.

In year 120 of the 4th age:
In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a greay ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over the Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.

[Ulmo]

About the Ringbearers and Gimli dying:

Letter 154

But in this story it is supposed that there may be certain rare exceptions or accommodations (legitimately supposed? there always seem to be exceptions); and so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo (by the express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel. I have said nothing about it in this book, but the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their 'kind' cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will 'die' of free will, and leave the world.

Letter 246

'Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured', said Gandalf (III 268) not in Middle-earth. Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spent still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil.

Letter 325

As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time - whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon them. Their sojourn was a 'purgatory', but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.

[trolls' bane]

Wow. Wish I knew that. Where do people get those letters any way, are they in some sort of book?

[Shadowfax]

troll's bane:

the letters are compiled into one volume called "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien" (hehe what else would it be called? ) and you can buy it in bookstores/online. If your bookstore doesn't have it I bet if you asked they could order it for you. (that's what I had to do)