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09-29-2003, 12:39 AM | #1 |
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Sam is overloving
Its seems to me that in the movies, sam is "overloving" torwards frodo. in the books(i know, the books are not the movies) sam always calls frodo "master" and in thhe movies he calls him frodo. the movies make sam love frodo to much.
Is anyone bothered by this?
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09-29-2003, 02:38 AM | #2 |
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No, I don't think there's a tremendous difference at all.
As for how he addresses Frodo, I think that change was made because modern audiences wouldn't understand the "master-servant" bond that Tolkien tried to espound. It's one of the ones I don't really agree with, but I see why it was done.
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09-29-2003, 02:32 PM | #3 |
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In the books they kiss lips but not in the movies, so I say the opposite is true.
Note: Before getting distracted bu the modern significance of that act, please think outside our culture. Presumably lip kissing between hobbit gentlemen was normal expression of affection. The gesture had zero zilch nada none sexual meaning in their culture.
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09-29-2003, 03:52 PM | #4 |
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they dont kiss because of well...you know. it wasnt uncommon for people to kiss each other on the lips back then. only it wasnt for love, just a friends thing i guess.
Maybe youre right Ironparrot, maybe its me.
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09-29-2003, 05:35 PM | #5 |
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O, it was for love. Not romantic love, but love as the truest of friends.
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09-29-2003, 10:14 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
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09-30-2003, 01:31 AM | #7 |
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thank you for phrasing it the way i could not, elfgirl.
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09-30-2003, 05:13 PM | #8 |
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PJ didnt have time to establish the master-servent bond in fotr, so PJ couldnt have sam calling frodo "master".
that make any sense?
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10-01-2003, 12:50 PM | #9 |
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no, it does not.
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10-01-2003, 02:07 PM | #10 |
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Yes, it does.
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10-01-2003, 02:31 PM | #11 |
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Seeing it portrayed on film in the context of 21st Century moral and social upheaval can certainly give one pause. Without a backround in the books IMO it is very easy to get the wrong impression from the movies.
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10-01-2003, 03:41 PM | #12 |
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Which "it"? Affection?
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10-01-2003, 03:52 PM | #13 |
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I thought the books portrayed a much more loving Samwise. The movie actor did a good job, I thought, of conveying the sense of 'philadelphia' with what little background the movie could provide and the absence of extensive narrative given in the books. All in all, though; I did not find a feeling of 'overlove' in the movies.
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10-02-2003, 12:37 AM | #14 |
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sam is not supposed to be more loving! to trash with the phelidelphia idea. sam should not be more loving. my name is sam and my friends (hardly friends anymore) take to calling me 'frodo's lover'. that is not why i started this thread though.
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10-02-2003, 07:05 AM | #15 | |
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Quote:
....hmnmm seems there are some unconscious issues here.
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10-02-2003, 11:50 AM | #16 |
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lol this thread is so stupid. As is the idea that they way sam is in the movie is a bit homosexual cos thats what you are all scared to say. A lot of people seem to think that Frodo and Sam are gay boys which is just stupid. Sam is the truest of friends you could hope for and Frodo well Frdo needs a good friend doesnt he
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10-02-2003, 01:35 PM | #17 |
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I think Sam was way more loveing in the books then in the movie, if you read through, it's alot more loving in the books, probally because PJ can't show on a screen what can be shown through the books.
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10-02-2003, 01:40 PM | #18 |
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Actually, in reply to the 'Master' vs. 'Frodo' deal, I think that Sam in the movies starts calling Frodo 'Master Frodo' and 'Mr. Frodo' a whole lot more in TTT than in the first film. Maybe that's just me.
Sam and Frodo are not gay! They are simply very good friends. Sam just cares very much for Frodo, and why not? We don't see too many life-long friendships like that anymore, but that is no reason to pick on them. And about the kissing in the books, I don't ever remember any lip-kissing. It just says 'kissed' as far as I remember. And if I went on a Quest like the one Frodo and Sam went on, the one person that went with me, although of inferior status, would quite quickly become my best friend. I should think that I would give her a peck on the cheek before leaving for Valinor. p.s. It's SNOWING here!!! I cannnot believe it is snowing. We hates snow! We hates it forever!
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10-02-2003, 03:58 PM | #19 |
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Sam is my favorite character. One of the main reasons I like him so much is that he has no artifice. If he doesn't like you, he doesn't pretend to be your pal. If he loves you, he is not afraid to show it - except that he's shy concerning Rosie Cotton. But overcoming his shyness is one of the things he has to learn. Saying his feelings for Rosie was harder than climbing Mount Doom, but in the end he did it. Yes, it was easier to show his love for his comrades than his desire for his true love. But aside from that, he wears no mask and I just love him!
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10-02-2003, 04:15 PM | #20 |
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I'm with you, Elfhelm. Sam is the emotional touchstone of the whole book.
It's a sad reflection that audiences can't deal with love between two men without going "fnarr, fnarr". If you're getting stick off your mates because of it, HB, maybe they need to grow up a bit. Homophobia is such a destructive thing, and not just towards gay people; it affects us all. It's one of the most powerful themes of LOTR, and hats off to PJ and co for not editing it out. I'm trying to think of other films which successfully portray this kind of love without being coy or macho about it but can't come up with any. Any ideas? |
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