Elvish!

[Arwen726]

Hi! I'm new here! I was wondering if there is anybody here that knows Elvish and would be willing to teach me through email or something? Please help me! I really really really really really wanna learn!!!!!

[Goldberry1]

Hello Arwen! Welcome to Entmoot! I don't know any elvish but if you go to this website, http://www.grey-company.org/Language, I think there are some downloadable things like a translator and some common phrases. You could always just try searching for sites about elvish and some might pop-up, that's how I found this one. Hope it helps.

[Duddun]

If anyone does know elvish can they teach me too! Please! I will try the sites too.

[Rían]

You guys might want to check out the Writing in Tengwar thread - you write English using Elvish characters. It's really fun! And easier than learning an entire language. You might want to start there.

[Amandil]

www.ardalambion.com is also a really good site. Pretty technical, though.

[Ms. Undomial]

it depends what kind of Elvish you want to learn. I don't know about Sindarin, but Quenya I can give you some important sites for.

http://hot-elf.com/learnelvish.html

and

http://www.grey-company.org/Circle/language/elv2com.htm

on the first one there are lessons to learn Quenya and some other stuff and on the second one it is from elvish to common, but if you go all the way down, then you will see Elvish Phrases and Common to elvish. all this stuff is quenya. I am learning Quenya right now, so if you need help with anything please PM me, and I will e-mail or just pm you with information. I hope that those web-sites helped you some!

[Ñólendil]

One cannot learn Quenya, or Sindarin -- or anyway, one cannot fluently speak it, or become an expert in it (though one can say that another is an expert of what we have of Quenya or Sindarin to work with). There is not enough vocabulary.

[Ms. Undomial]

There is enough to say pretty much what you want. and besides, if someone wants to learn it, don't tell them the annoying things about it. it is very good if you want to learn a new language (sp). it improves your memory. you can become a expert in Quenya; but you might have to add a few words. like thingimabobber. or something that JRRT simply forgot about, like computer. once you know the language fluently, you can add words that you think would be cool or interesting. there is never something wrong with trying to learn a new language. (no offense or anything, but you sound like boromir with the one ring. "one cannot simply walk into mordor.....")

[Ñólendil]

There is enough to say pretty much what you want. and besides,

Let me know how you say "pass the hamburger", or "I like to go to the museum", or "I have twenty sheets of paper". Try counting to 20 in Quenya, or Sindarin.

if someone wants to learn it, don't tell them the annoying things about it.

You mean like the fact that you can't learn it? People don't know "Elvish" (I don't like this term used by itself, as there are many Elvish languages), and Arwen should be told this. Some people know a lot of the vocabulary and understand the structure of the language and can say many things, but there is not enough of it to support a practical conversation. You can write poems in Quenya, or Sindarin, but you can't sit around a table at a café and chit-chat in Quenya, Telerin, Sindairn, Nandorin, or any Avarin language. I think this is something that is rather important to point out to someone who wants to learn the language. You can't learn Quenya like you can learn (say) français, or español.

you can become a expert in Quenya; but you might have to add a few words.

You will have to add many words, and you may never finish (well because at some point you are going to die). You cannot become an expert in J. R. R. Tolkien's Quenya, the respected Tolkien linguist Helgeh Fauskanger has said so himself. (He is the webmaster of the Ardalambion, which Amandil posted a link to).

. once you know the language fluently, you can add words that you think would be cool or interesting.

I am not myself a linguist, or anything close to it, but I know enough to know there is a lot more to expanding the language than just adding words "you think would cool or interesting." Even so, I don't think anyone has ever expanded the language (and I speak of Quenya, as we know most about it, I don't know which language you are talking about) accuractely to a point in which a dictionary can be made for it.

. there is never something wrong with trying to learn a new language. (no offense or anything, but you sound like boromir with the one ring. "one cannot simply walk into mordor.....")

Of course there is not anything wrong with trying to learn a new language, but there is certainly something difficult about trying to learn a language that is not complete, and cannot be spoken by anyone fluently. Peter Jackson's Boromir was right, one cannot simply walk into Mordor. It was rather a proud statement, I think. I mean, he should have known that Elrond competent enough not to count on the company to simply walk into Mordor. But he was right all the same, and no one did simply walk in. You can capture Gollum and tame him and have him vow to be your guide (provided your name is Frodo Baggins) and survive a great deal of perils and get help from the Rangers of Ithilien and barely sneak through the Morgul Vale and have your life saved over and over by your companions and get bitten in the neck by Shelob and get captured by Orcs and get rescued by Sam and put on some Orc-armor and jump off a bridge, and then you can say you're on the edge of Mordor. And that is really what I am saying. Delve into Quenya, or Sindarin, go for it! Study it all you want, become an authority on the subject, but don't expect to be able to speak Quenya like you can speak Russian or Chinese, because you can't.

[Dolenloteiel]

Ya, I'm currently studying Quenya and there's this wonderful website called L.E.A.F. It stands for Learning Elvish Among Friends. They give you lessons on sentence structure and pluralizing verbs and such. (I hate grammar, but they make it so easy) Then they give you a vocab list to study, and you take quizzes and stuff! Good luck! L.E.A.F.

[Ms. Undomial]

*puts hand on face and sighs.* oh goodness sake, not again. Let me get back to you on that. I have to go have Thanksgiving Dinner now. but I assure you, when I get back I will put up a very large argument.

[Ñólendil]

I will be glad to crush it. *makes snapping noise with mouth* Like chicken-bone.

[Ithildin55]

Suilad!
(which basically means “hello!” in Sindarin)

Of course it is good to learn a new language! And Tolkien’s languages are VERY interesting to learn! I have been working on learning Sindarin for several months now. And true, you can find a way to say many things in Tolkien's Elvish languages if you try.

However, I must also agree with Ñólendil. There is barely enough vocabulary existant to construct roughly what one wants to say if one wishes to remain relatively true to the language. Constructions are sometimes forced and awkward. Even the most learned experts are not “fluent” in the languages (by their own admission!)

Problem is – the dear Professor just never really finished the languages, and he continually refined and updated existing forms rather than creating new vocabulary. He seemed to create on an “as needed” basis, so words he never got around to using just don’t exist. He also never anticipated teaching his languages to masses of people, and so neglected to develop the grammatical helps and texts we need.

Quenya is a more complete language than Sindarin, and newcomers are usually advised to begin there. There is an excellent course available on the Ardalambion site. However, Sindarin is the language used by the Elves of Middle-earth in the Third age, and the one most often heard in the dialogue of the movie. There are also several excellent articles on this, the language of the Grey Elves.

Here is a link to the FAQ’s for the elfling discussion group. http://nellardo.com/lang/elf/faq.html#section1
It will answer many questions about the languages and provide many links. The elfling group is one of the premier Tolkien language discussion boards around. Many “experts” frequent the board occasionally, even including David Salo who wrote the dialogue lines for the movie. It is a good place to discuss your translation efforts.

Here are some more links to excellent and reliable sites. Please note that differences of opinion concerning what is “correct” exists even between these “expert” sites!

Ardalambion – Quenya course and many language helps – start here!
http://www.Ardalambion.com

Fellowship of the Wordsmiths – Movie dialogue explained, excellent grammar helps and links
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie.htm

Online Sindarin Dictionary – great!
http://www.geocities.com/almacq.geo/sindar/

Mellonath Daeron – more language helps
http://forodrim.letsrock.nu/daeron/md_home.html

Fun site – Sindarin tutorial
http://site.voila.fr/tol_gannel/index.html

Vinyar Tengwar is a newsletter dedicated to publishing new information on Tolkien’s languages. http://www.elvish.org/VT/


Note: I am not an expert, I am still learning the language; but I am willing to exchange emails with those interested in learning and translating Sindarin.

Ithildin55

[Duddun]

Quenya is hard! I just started learning using the links and it is so hard and confusing!

[Ms. Undomial]

Learning any new language is hard, duddun.

[Elf.Freak]

Vedui! Creoso a'entmoot! (Greetings! Welcome to Entmoot!)

Elvish is quite hard to learn, I'm still learning! I learnt my elvish from Tel'Mallen, the circle if it helps you!

Aa' menealle nauva calen ar' malta (May your ways be green and golden (as put below ))

[Ithildin55]

Suilad,

I had not visited the Grey Company site before, and after checking it out, there is one little detail you should probably know…

The language described as “Elvish” on the Grey company site is not Tolkien’s Elvish. It does seem to be based upon his languages and contains elements of both Sindarin and Quenya mixed up together. As a constructed language, I suppose it is as valid to learn as any other, but if you are really wanting to learn the languages represented in Tolkien’s works, try some of the sites I listed in my previous post.

Happy learning!
Ithildin55

[cian]

"Grey Company Elven/Tel'Mithrim" is indeed not reliable, and moreover not intended to accurately represent JRRTs invented languages.

"GCE" is for roleplaying.

[cian]

Originally posted by Elf.Freak
[B]Vedui! Creoso a'entmoot! (Greetings! Welcome to Entmoot!) Elvish is quite hard to learn, I'm still learning! I learnt my elvish from Tel'Mallen, the circle if it helps you!

I suggest avoiding this site

Quick example: according to expert David Salo your first word "vedui" does not mean greetings -- the word is actually medui "last", and occurs elsewhere in an environment where lenition is triggered -- na vedui "at last".

This is Sindarin, which includes consonant mutations in certain environments (compare Welsh).
As already said, check out Ardalambion (and links) for a scholarly look at JRRTs invented langs.

¤

[Elven Princess Arwen]

Thank you all for helping me out with my want to learn Elvish. I really appreciate it! I'm sorry it took so long to post this but i have been kinda busy so i haven't been online in forever, maybe almost a week, so i didn't get to post this until now. But anyhow, thank you all very much and i'll check out the sites when i can and i'll brief you all on how i'm doing!!