Return of the King

Panther2112 · 05-24-2002, 12:12 PM

I just finished reading the trilogy for the second time. I'm 35 and the first time a read the books was when I was a teenager. It was fun to go back and read the books again because there was so much I had forgoten about. One thing struck me though, is it me or is the ending of the books kinda depressing . I love the Sim and have read it more times than I have the trilogy and it's sad also. They are still great books, but very sad in my opinion. How does anyone else feel about the ending of the trilogy? Anyway, peace everyone.

Firalphien · 05-24-2002, 12:15 PM

I totally agree w/ you. Except, I just finished reading it yesterday night! I'm just confused w/ one thing, but i'll figure it out soon, hopefully. The ending was also kind of disappointing, at least I thought so, well to the degree of, I wanna know what's next...

StrawberryIcecream · 05-24-2002, 12:39 PM

I thought the ending was genius.

Extremely powerful and though it left you sad, it left you happy as well!

No, i think he couldnt have ended it better. Well done Tolkien.

Lelondul · 05-24-2002, 12:55 PM

I agree Strawberry (boy, alot of people have just finished reading again - that's great!). Add me to the list of recent-re-reads - I just finished it again well into the night last night and I have to say the ending is perfect. Bittersweet is how I characterise it, and that to me is what makes it so brilliant and true-to-life. It resonates in a much more tangible way than if it had a too-happy-sappy ending. Wouldn't have done the rest of the work justice imho.

I think the Sil is many times over more tragic (with the exception of the Beren and Luthiensaga) than LotR. Would that the Professor could have written some of the Sil epics in the same, detailed manner of LotR *sigh* aah well, our imaginations will have to do

- Lelond

Panther2112 · 05-24-2002, 03:13 PM

I was not implying that the ending was bad, just sad. I to think the the entire series is genius. I guess the ending is more true to life. Nothing last forever and the world changes. People come and go and the lives of men and women short. As Gandalf said be not ashamed to cry for not all greif is bad or something to that effect. Peace all.

Starr Polish · 05-25-2002, 12:00 AM

The ending of the book made me cry only a little bit, because I was prepared for it to be sad, and determined not to cry. It did touch me in some way that I can't explain. It changed me...well...that sounds weird. I told you I couldn't explain it. I'm glad the ending wasn't happy-go-lucky oh, everything's great now type of ending.

***Khamûl*** · 05-25-2002, 12:06 AM

It was definitely a departure from the usual "and they lived happily ever after" ending. Like Lelondul said, it's bittersweet. There's the sadness of Frodo and the others passing into the West, but then there's the happiness of Sam to be home. Sheer brilliance.

Ñólendil · 05-25-2002, 01:24 AM

He did try Lelondul. You've read Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin and the Narn-Chîn-Húrin I believe. And there is the unfinished Lay of Leithien.

Tar-Elendil · 05-26-2002, 02:53 PM

Quote:

The ending was also kind of disappointing, at least I thought so, well to the degree of, I wanna know what's next...

read the appendices and "Later events concerning the members of the Fellowship of the Ring."

Eldanuumea · 05-27-2002, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Panther2112
I just finished reading the trilogy for the second time. I'm 35 and the first time a read the books was when I was a teenager. It was fun to go back and read the books again because there was so much I had forgoten about. One thing struck me though, is it me or is the ending of the books kinda depressing . I love the Sim and have read it more times than I have the trilogy and it's sad also. They are still great books, but very sad in my opinion. How does anyone else feel about the ending of the trilogy? Anyway, peace everyone.

An overwhelming feeling of grief and loss came over me when I finished Return of the King. Frodo's statement about how, to save something sometimes one has to lose it, is so sad. Frodo is such a badly hurt, damaged individual.
The passing of the elves is terribly sad and wistful. Everything in their world is fading.
There is a general feel of loss throughout all threes parts of LOTR.
Perhaps that is one reason the books have had such unusual impact on people's souls. There is no simple "Everyone lived happily ever after." Life doesn't work that way.

Arathorn · 05-27-2002, 05:28 AM

I think that the passing of the elves gave me a feeling similar to what happens when someone you know dies. What you are actually grieving is the fact that you are no longer in the presence of that special person; that the world is no longer the same without him/her; but you think they are going to a special place where there is no more hurt.

This is from my christian perspective, btw.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-27-2002, 05:32 AM

I find the end to be very bittersweet...a lot for the reasons mentioned above by Arathorn. . .the Elves, and Frodo, are leaving, but they are going on to a 'better place...'

I always find myself almost to be crying at the end of the RotK.

Garina · 05-27-2002, 06:57 AM

If Tolkien had ended it any other way, it would have been cliched. I love the ending!
I wish that Frodo had been able to find peace in the Shire, but I guess the book is actually better if it can make me cry!

***Earniel*** · 05-27-2002, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf
I always find myself almost to be crying at the end of the RotK.

Almost? I nearly cry my eyes out. The most important reason why I do not read it in public.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-27-2002, 03:11 PM

Well, there might have been a few tears in my eyes

What really made me cry was at the end of The Two Towers, though. I more often cry when I'm listening to the BBC radio production, at the very end. There's a song, and it's just really sad. . .

Radagast The Brown · 05-28-2002, 01:50 PM

Yeah... it was sad...

, but not that much!! If you were Sam, Pipin or Merry yuo were really crying, but you are just reeaders...

when I finished LOTR I jumped to the Silmarilion...

It was a good book too, and its end wasn't sad at all. It was happy...

sun-star · 05-28-2002, 03:22 PM

I cried almost non-stop from the end of Two Towers to the Grey Havens, even at the happy parts, and I never usually cry at books. I thought it was a perfect ending, wistful but with a sweetness too.

Snowdog · 05-28-2002, 03:56 PM

I didn't think it was sad in a sense, but the finality was what I was saddened about. It seemed that there should have been more! Sad points for me were when King Theoden was struck down and the death of Halbarad the ranger....

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-28-2002, 06:10 PM

I find that at least for myself I really indentify with one or two characters, so much that when there is a point such as at the Grey Havens, I feel really, really sad because all throughout the book I have identified with a character for whom at that point it is very sad. Or at least bittersweet.

I thought one of the saddest parts in RotK is when they return to the Shire and it's been ruined by Sharkey, and all those poor trees are cut down

Strange-Looking Lurker · 05-29-2002, 06:45 PM

I think any other ending would not have fit with one of the biggist themes in Tolkien: sorrow. Can you think of a single Tolkien story were something beautifull or great is not lost?

05-24-2002, 12:12 PM	#1
Panther2112 Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbia, South Carolina Posts: 27	Return of the King I just finished reading the trilogy for the second time. I'm 35 and the first time a read the books was when I was a teenager. It was fun to go back and read the books again because there was so much I had forgoten about. One thing struck me though, is it me or is the ending of the books kinda depressing . I love the Sim and have read it more times than I have the trilogy and it's sad also. They are still great books, but very sad in my opinion. How does anyone else feel about the ending of the trilogy? Anyway, peace everyone. __________________ No matter where you go, there you are.

05-24-2002, 12:15 PM	#2
Firalphien Hobbit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 18	I totally agree w/ you. Except, I just finished reading it yesterday night! I'm just confused w/ one thing, but i'll figure it out soon, hopefully. The ending was also kind of disappointing, at least I thought so, well to the degree of, I wanna know what's next... __________________ "Never let a fool kiss you, or a kiss fool you."

05-24-2002, 12:39 PM	#3
StrawberryIcecream Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In my jeans Posts: 915	I thought the ending was genius. Extremely powerful and though it left you sad, it left you happy as well! No, i think he couldnt have ended it better. Well done Tolkien. __________________ www.foolofatook.com for all you pippin's out there. Last edited by StrawberryIcecream : 05-24-2002 at 12:40 PM.

05-24-2002, 12:55 PM	#4
Lelondul Swan-buggerer Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The rainy, grey north Posts: 69	I agree Strawberry (boy, alot of people have just finished reading again - that's great!). Add me to the list of recent-re-reads - I just finished it again well into the night last night and I have to say the ending is perfect. Bittersweet is how I characterise it, and that to me is what makes it so brilliant and true-to-life. It resonates in a much more tangible way than if it had a too-happy-sappy ending. Wouldn't have done the rest of the work justice imho. I think the Sil is many times over more tragic (with the exception of the Beren and Luthiensaga) than LotR. Would that the Professor could have written some of the Sil epics in the same, detailed manner of LotR sigh aah well, our imaginations will have to do - Lelond __________________ - Lelond, your friendly neighborhood Adan

05-24-2002, 03:13 PM	#5
Panther2112 Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbia, South Carolina Posts: 27	I was not implying that the ending was bad, just sad. I to think the the entire series is genius. I guess the ending is more true to life. Nothing last forever and the world changes. People come and go and the lives of men and women short. As Gandalf said be not ashamed to cry for not all greif is bad or something to that effect. Peace all. __________________ No matter where you go, there you are.

05-25-2002, 12:00 AM	#6
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	The ending of the book made me cry only a little bit, because I was prepared for it to be sad, and determined not to cry. It did touch me in some way that I can't explain. It changed me...well...that sounds weird. I told you I couldn't explain it. I'm glad the ending wasn't happy-go-lucky oh, everything's great now type of ending. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

05-25-2002, 12:06 AM	#7
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	It was definitely a departure from the usual "and they lived happily ever after" ending. Like Lelondul said, it's bittersweet. There's the sadness of Frodo and the others passing into the West, but then there's the happiness of Sam to be home. Sheer brilliance. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

05-25-2002, 01:24 AM	#8
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	He did try Lelondul. You've read Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin and the Narn-Chîn-Húrin I believe. And there is the unfinished Lay of Leithien. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

05-27-2002, 05:28 AM	#11
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	I think that the passing of the elves gave me a feeling similar to what happens when someone you know dies. What you are actually grieving is the fact that you are no longer in the presence of that special person; that the world is no longer the same without him/her; but you think they are going to a special place where there is no more hurt. This is from my christian perspective, btw. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

05-27-2002, 05:32 AM	#12
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I find the end to be very bittersweet...a lot for the reasons mentioned above by Arathorn. . .the Elves, and Frodo, are leaving, but they are going on to a 'better place...' I always find myself almost to be crying at the end of the RotK. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-27-2002, 06:57 AM	#13
Garina Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tring, Herts, England Posts: 582	If Tolkien had ended it any other way, it would have been cliched. I love the ending! I wish that Frodo had been able to find peace in the Shire, but I guess the book is actually better if it can make me cry! __________________ Entmoot Resident Bard #2 Wielder of the shiny fire extinguisher Worshipper of the divine cheesecake Hamsters and Rangers everywhere, rejoice!!! Minsc, Baldur's Gate 2 Children, don't take drugs. Become a pop star, then people give them to you for free!!! - Billy Mack, Love Actually. While I'm sure the nice people from the local archery club meant well, a moment's consideration would have made them realise that giving my friend and I lethal weapons was probably not a good idea! Dammit, eyeliner and dreadlocks should not be that sexy!

05-27-2002, 03:11 PM	#15
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Well, there might have been a few tears in my eyes What really made me cry was at the end of The Two Towers, though. I more often cry when I'm listening to the BBC radio production, at the very end. There's a song, and it's just really sad. . . __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-28-2002, 01:50 PM	#16
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Yeah... it was sad... , but not that much!! If you were Sam, Pipin or Merry yuo were really crying, but you are just reeaders... when I finished LOTR I jumped to the Silmarilion... It was a good book too, and its end wasn't sad at all. It was happy... __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

05-28-2002, 03:22 PM	#17
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I cried almost non-stop from the end of Two Towers to the Grey Havens, even at the happy parts, and I never usually cry at books. I thought it was a perfect ending, wistful but with a sweetness too. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

05-28-2002, 03:56 PM	#18
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	I didn't think it was sad in a sense, but the finality was what I was saddened about. It seemed that there should have been more! Sad points for me were when King Theoden was struck down and the death of Halbarad the ranger.... __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

05-28-2002, 06:10 PM	#19
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I find that at least for myself I really indentify with one or two characters, so much that when there is a point such as at the Grey Havens, I feel really, really sad because all throughout the book I have identified with a character for whom at that point it is very sad. Or at least bittersweet. I thought one of the saddest parts in RotK is when they return to the Shire and it's been ruined by Sharkey, and all those poor trees are cut down __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-29-2002, 06:45 PM	#20
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	I think any other ending would not have fit with one of the biggist themes in Tolkien: sorrow. Can you think of a single Tolkien story were something beautifull or great is not lost? __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

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