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#1 |
Sapling
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2
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![]() Does anyone think that there's a possibility that Tom Bombadil (TLOR) is actually Tulkas? They seem so similar - it leads me to think that they are one and the same. That would explain why the Ring had no power over Tom - if he was a valar. Sauron also does not seem to affect him. Also, Gandalf does mention that he was very ancient. Could it be so?
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#2 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Welcome.
I don't think the two are actually very similar actually. Ultimately though Tulkas is in Valinor and Tom Bombadil is in Middle-earth and that's just that. In my proud opinion.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#3 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: utumno and angband
Posts: 241
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i think if tom were actually tulkas he would oppose sauron. just seems to be his nature.
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"........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon. |
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#4 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
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I think Tom isn't anything. It is possible for a Valar to be tempted. Tom isn't tempted because he can't be.
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
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#5 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middle Earth (I wish)
Posts: 670
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Tom is the Witch King of Angmar! Well, maybe not, but I did read an... interesting... theory about that once.
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Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE |
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#6 |
Lurker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lothlórien
Posts: 3,419
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I don't think Tom is Tulkas. Tulkas was very warlike. Tom is not.
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There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium... |
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#7 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Interesting thought... But I doubt it could be Tulkas, as seem to remember Tulkas was quite a hot-head. No way he would have stayed out of the fight. Another Vala perhaps then?
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We are not things. |
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#8 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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How could he be any Vala? They are in Valinor. The Valar are the Valar and Tom is Tom.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#9 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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maybe they took a trip to the continent. You know, sightseeing and stuff...
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We are not things. |
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#10 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Right, and whichever Vala it was (accompanied by the other Valië) decided to settle down somewhere, change their personalities and functions completely and change their names to Tom Bombadil and Goldberry.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#11 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Why not? Afterall that celebrityship can be too much to bear sometimes. How do you solve it? By going incognito...
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We are not things. |
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#12 |
Sapling
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2
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![]() I forgot that Tulkas was in Valinor. I have only just started reading the Silmarillion after many years. I also forgot how much Tulkas loves a good fight. Tom really couldn't be him, afterall - he isn't very interested in the world outside his own woods. Well, it was a thought, anyway - and it stimulated conversation!
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#13 |
Sapling
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 13
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Tom Bombadil was the spirit of the Oxford countryside. He was featured in a poem after an older son tried to flush the toy of one of the younger sons. This doll had yellow boots and a blue jacket. He blithely danced and sang his way through hazards in the Old Forest. His chief virtues are 1.) an ability to overcome any bleak, dreary, forboding situation with a cheerful song and 2.) an ability to appreciate a thing for itself, especially a beautiful thing in nature.
Tulkas is a great warrior among the Valar. Surely Tom Bombadil is also one of the Ainur (ed.), probably one of the countless lesser beings, unnamed Maiar, who dwelt in Middle-Earth. The Balrogs were perverted Maiar. We don't seek to find links between every Balrog and some named Maiar, so why should we seek this with Tom Bombadil? Tom and Goldberry just are. I could go on. I love this topic. ![]() Last edited by Fladrif : 04-04-2002 at 11:00 AM. |
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#14 | |
The Original Corruptor
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,881
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Quote:
As for Thomas being Tulkas, umm...no. Tulkas once wrestled with Morgoth, and threw him on his face. Tulkas would make light work of Sauron, given half the chance. Tom definitely did not show that kind of power... |
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#15 |
Sapling
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 13
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Yes, I meant Ainur, thank you Anduril.
![]() They are "countless" in that "their number is not known". But the point is that people often seem to want to identify Tom and Goldberry as some other beings in disguise, but they are too guileless to present themselves as other than they are. In the Silmarillion JRRT says there are many more Maiar among the Ainur, and some of them lived in Middle-earth. They shouldn't have to be some Maiar who are named differently in another tale. They can just be themselves. Last edited by Fladrif : 04-04-2002 at 11:04 AM. |
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#16 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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I don't think they have to be Maiar either.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#17 |
Sapling
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 13
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That's why I said "probably". So what other sort of being do you think could put on the Ring and be unaffected?
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#18 |
Númenorean
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,050
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![]() The only thing that seems to me to be alike between Tom Bombadil and Tulkas is they both tend to laugh a great deal. And I agree with a previous post- if Tom was Tulkas, he would have probably participated in the War and not sat within set borders.
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Why can we not be sober.. |
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#19 |
Númenorean
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,050
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![]() i just recently lost my book The Silmarillion. but in the fellowship of the ring it states that tom has blue eyes. if someone could possibly read the description of tulkas in the silmarillion or any other book or in an essay by JRR, it just might put an end to this debate?
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Why can we not be sober.. |
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#20 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Quote:
Little in the description of Nessa would point to Goldberry. Goldberry has no particular connection with deer and her speed is not mentioned. She's not known for her delight in dancing either. Nessa is associated with the forest and the wild like her brother Oromë, Goldberry is associated with the river and the rain and the waters of the Earth. Anyway Tolkien said Tom was an aborigine. It is my strong belief that Tom and perhaps Goldberry are members of some sort of unique order or Race. I do not believe them to be Ainur.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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