Parallel between LotR and "911"

Sirithdal · 01-27-2002, 02:57 AM

Hey, didn't you find it interesting how the One Ring of power can represent the evil-doers who are bent "with all their will" on obtaining THE weapon of mass destruction? Did you notice in the movie's stunning preamble when Aragorn's father cut off the hand of Sauron, the entire field of battle was effected the same way as when an atom bomb goes off? This was surely intentional, and it's amazing how close to our situation the allegory is. Evil armies lorded under (completely!) by fundamentalist psychotics?

Lightice · 01-27-2002, 06:19 AM

You know, that wasn't Aragorn's father. That was Aragorn's far ancestor from 3000 years back. Also, I doubt, that that was intentional. You DO know, that talk about the One Ring being a symbol for atom bomb is very old subject, and Tolkien himself told in his time, that the whole concept of the Ring was invented at time of WWI, when no one had even heard of nuclear weapons.
Thus, theory proved more or less false.
I don't think, that Sauron going off as a nuclear explosion still tells that much. Peter Jackson is the guy, who directed Braindead. I doubt, that he would do such allegories, especially not in a movie, that doesn't have anything to do with current world.
Also, this should go to Movies-forum, as the movie is completely different thing than the book, and this doesn't have anything to do with Middle Earth, which for this forum is made.

markedel · 01-27-2002, 10:20 AM

Tolkien wrote in his prologue if the ring was the bomb the winner would sieze it and use it, and then Saruman would build his own ring and end in a standoff. Neither side would love hobbits.

Sirithdal · 01-27-2002, 01:16 PM

Thank you for pointing out the fact that Isildur, elder son of Elendil, was not Aragorn's father. I knew this was wrong when I wrote it but for some reason let it go (it must have been the pipe weed, or maybe it was an unconscious means to ensure a reply). I am of course referring to the movie here and not to Tolkien's opus. But I disagree with your statement that the movie has nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings or Middle-earth.

What I was saying is not a theory, however, it is merely an observation of fact. The connection between LofR and the current situation is strong and very real. Evil lords are, as we speak, seeking something, something giving awesome power to the one who wields it. The forces of "good" who have owned this (technology) have so far refrained from using it; those we perceive as evil will almost certainly use it -- should they obtain it. This is the reality of our time, the "3rd" millenium.

Good fantasy does not provide escape from reality.

Laurelyn · 01-27-2002, 02:23 PM

I'm assuming you mean "911" as September the Eleventh?

And speaking of similarities between LotR and Sept. 11, anyway, has anybody else out there heard all that bruhaha about how some people think that they shouldn't make a movie of the Two Towers b/c of its name?

Lightice · 01-27-2002, 03:20 PM

I didn't say (or at least mean), that the movie had nothing to do with the book, but what happens in the movie doesn't affect in what happens in the book. Sauron didn't blow up in the books.
I don't think, that Peter Jackson, the guy behind Bad Taste, Meet the Feebles and Braindead would do hints to current happenings in film, that is meant to be an escape from them all. Jackson isn't a fool.

LotR is so popular exactly becouse of the fact, that it's escape from reality. People want to forget terrorists, presidents etc. for awhile and relax. That's why fantasy films are now so popular.
It couldn't had came in better time, to make damn lots of money.

Hapira_Brandybuck · 01-27-2002, 07:45 PM

yeah, that Two Towers thing is a load of ****

the two towers in question are Orthanc and Sauron's tower (I forget the name d'oh!) I believe

those towers are nowhere near each other and although the name may stir memories in the mind of the families, as long as the media doesn't go nuts about it, it should be fine

ragamuffin92 · 01-27-2002, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laurelyn
I'm assuming you mean "911" as September the Eleventh?

And speaking of similarities between LotR and Sept. 11, anyway, has anybody else out there heard all that bruhaha about how some people think that they shouldn't make a movie of the Two Towers b/c of its name?

I live about 40 miles from the World Trade Center, and I've never heard one bit of protest about using TTT as a title. It wouldn't surprise me, tho. Some people aren't happy unless they can find something to complain about.

Laurelyn · 01-27-2002, 08:46 PM

Well, there was some nonsense about it. I don't think, however, that it's going to end up going anywhere.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hapira_BrandybuckYeah that Two Towers thing is a load of ****

Not exactly my words, but it about sums it up anyway.

jerseydevil · 01-27-2002, 09:07 PM

I live 40 miles in the opposite direction of you - central NJ by Princeton. I also have never heard anything about a contoversy over the Two Towers. I do find myself constantly (have no idea why) saying Twin Towers instead of Two Towers. If people want - you can check out my memorial page to the Twin Towers at - http://www.AboutNewJersey.com/twintowers/twintowers.htm

Concerning any similarities between LOTR the movie and 9/11. They are completely coincidental I think. For one thing the movie was complete and finished when 9/11 happened. I do think it is extremely eerie hearing Galadriels's speech at the beginning. I always makes me think about what we are going through right now when I here that.

FrodoFriend · 01-27-2002, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirithdal
What I was saying is not a theory, however, it is merely an observation of fact. The connection between LofR and the current situation is strong and very real. Evil lords are, as we speak, seeking something, something giving awesome power to the one who wields it. The forces of "good" who have owned this (technology) have so far refrained from using it; those we perceive as evil will almost certainly use it -- should they obtain it. This is the reality of our time, the "3rd" millenium.

Good fantasy does not provide escape from reality.

Okay, I may get flamed for this, but I have to say it.

I don't think the people you are referring to are "evil". At least, if they are, so are we. We can't call them "evil" and still claim to be "good" ourselves. They think what they're doing is right; they think they are saving the world from a great moral evil (us). We have done equally atrocious things in the past for the same reasons. There, it's out!

As for the thing about the Two Towers, I read an interview in which PJ said he was a little worried about it, but wasn't going to change the title. That's all I've heard.

ragamuffin92 · 01-27-2002, 09:30 PM

Hi, NJD--(I worked in Union for 3 and a half years. Tuscan dairy, just off Rte 78.) Anyway, it's perfectly understandable saying Twin instead of Two. I said elsewhere in this moot that I was in the process of reading TTT on Sept. 11th. Lots of emotional paralells.

ragamuffin92 · 01-27-2002, 09:55 PM

I wasn't able to delete it, so I rewrote it!!

***anduin*** · 01-27-2002, 10:50 PM

Let's keep this thread on topic please. Discuss the parallels between the two if you wish, but leave the emotions, finger pointing and name calling out of it please.

ragamuffin92 · 01-27-2002, 11:15 PM

Sorry, Anduin--I tried my best not to flame or be unkind or uncivil, but I wanted to respond. I would have sent a response by e-mail, but I don't think she has one listed.

jerseydevil · 01-27-2002, 11:44 PM

Ragamuffin92 -

Being so close to "ground zero", like you, I feel the same way. Those people innocently were going on their way to work. After 4 months of funerals and stuff - it's a little bit hard not call the people that did this "evil".

Sorry Anduin - but I needed to respond. Todd Beamer (one of the heros of flight 93) lived down the road from me in Cranbury and 6 other people died in my town. These are still open wounds for the people that live in this area. Also Anduin - you may remember me saying Twin instead of Two Towers at BMilder and HOBBIT's house when we were trying to play the LOTR game.

FrodoFriend · 01-28-2002, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ragamuffin92
Frodofriend, I don't intend for this to be a flame, so please don't take it that way.

To answer you in Middle-earth terms--Frodo stiole mushrooms from Farmer Maggot. According to what you say, he can't call Sauron evil? Or Saruman, or the orcs, etc? A person (or people) who intentionally murders thousands of defenseless and unsuspecting people is the epitome of evil.

How would you feel if your mother/father/boyfriend/husband/son/daughter/best friend went to work one morning and you never saw them again because a group of people who didn't even know them decided to murder them? That's exactly what happend to thousands of families around here. After seeing a lot of children on television crying at funerals and cemeteries because one or both of their parents were killed that day, no one can say that they were not given over to evil. When I was in my teens, I probably felt something close to the way you do, but age is an educator and an eye opener. PLEASE don't take this as a flame, because it's not meant to be.

I'm not saying it wasn't wrong. I would feel terrible and very angry if some one I loved died. And I'm not saying it's wrong to try and stop it by fighting back. What I'm saying is, it would be hypocritical to label them as "evil" when the United States has taken similar actions and killed thousands of innocent civilians as well. Furthermore, some aspects of our lifestyle are as immoral to people in the Middle East as their's are to us. Both sides are trying/have tried to protect their way of life with violence. Get what I mean? THEY'RE BOTH WRONG. I wish there were some way for people to just leave each other alone, but it doesn't seem to happen in real life.

As for stealing mushrooms, that's hardly the same as killing thousands of people. Sauron is trying to kill everyone, Frodo is trying to save everyone; in a fantasy world, good and evil are clear cut. Not so in real life.

And please don't say I'm only saying this because I'm a teenager. My opinions are as valid as anyone's. Thank you though for responding to my post.

ragamuffin92 · 01-28-2002, 12:41 AM

I'm glad you read my post, and now I'm going to delete it. (I would have preferred to have sent an e-mail). And I didn't mean that your opinion isn't valid, because it is. I was just saying I used to think the same thing, is all. I hope there are no hard feelings, because I enjoy your posts and your point of view.

FrodoFriend · 01-28-2002, 12:44 AM

Thank you.

And thank goodness we can have a mature conversation. Why are you deleting your post though? You could have PMed me.

ragamuffin92 · 01-28-2002, 12:47 AM

Well, it's CERTAINLY not because I didn't think of that....

01-27-2002, 02:57 AM	#1
Sirithdal Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 44	Parallel between LotR and "911" Hey, didn't you find it interesting how the One Ring of power can represent the evil-doers who are bent "with all their will" on obtaining THE weapon of mass destruction? Did you notice in the movie's stunning preamble when Aragorn's father cut off the hand of Sauron, the entire field of battle was effected the same way as when an atom bomb goes off? This was surely intentional, and it's amazing how close to our situation the allegory is. Evil armies lorded under (completely!) by fundamentalist psychotics?

01-27-2002, 10:20 AM	#3
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Tolkien wrote in his prologue if the ring was the bomb the winner would sieze it and use it, and then Saruman would build his own ring and end in a standoff. Neither side would love hobbits. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

01-27-2002, 01:16 PM	#4
Sirithdal Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 44	To Lightice Thank you for pointing out the fact that Isildur, elder son of Elendil, was not Aragorn's father. I knew this was wrong when I wrote it but for some reason let it go (it must have been the pipe weed, or maybe it was an unconscious means to ensure a reply). I am of course referring to the movie here and not to Tolkien's opus. But I disagree with your statement that the movie has nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings or Middle-earth. What I was saying is not a theory, however, it is merely an observation of fact. The connection between LofR and the current situation is strong and very real. Evil lords are, as we speak, seeking something, something giving awesome power to the one who wields it. The forces of "good" who have owned this (technology) have so far refrained from using it; those we perceive as evil will almost certainly use it -- should they obtain it. This is the reality of our time, the "3rd" millenium. Good fantasy does not provide escape from reality. Last edited by Sirithdal : 01-27-2002 at 01:17 PM.

01-27-2002, 02:23 PM	#5
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	I'm assuming you mean "911" as September the Eleventh? And speaking of similarities between LotR and Sept. 11, anyway, has anybody else out there heard all that bruhaha about how some people think that they shouldn't make a movie of the Two Towers b/c of its name? __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

01-27-2002, 07:45 PM	#7
Hapira_Brandybuck Enting Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NW IN Posts: 75	yeah, that Two Towers thing is a load of **** the two towers in question are Orthanc and Sauron's tower (I forget the name d'oh!) I believe those towers are nowhere near each other and although the name may stir memories in the mind of the families, as long as the media doesn't go nuts about it, it should be fine __________________ -Hapira Brandybuck 'My dear Frodo!' exclaimed Gandalf. 'Hobbits really are amazing creatures, as I have said before. You can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a month, and yet after a hundred years they can still surprise you at a pinch.

01-27-2002, 06:19 AM	#2
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	You know, that wasn't Aragorn's father. That was Aragorn's far ancestor from 3000 years back. Also, I doubt, that that was intentional. You DO know, that talk about the One Ring being a symbol for atom bomb is very old subject, and Tolkien himself told in his time, that the whole concept of the Ring was invented at time of WWI, when no one had even heard of nuclear weapons. Thus, theory proved more or less false. I don't think, that Sauron going off as a nuclear explosion still tells that much. Peter Jackson is the guy, who directed Braindead. I doubt, that he would do such allegories, especially not in a movie, that doesn't have anything to do with current world. Also, this should go to Movies-forum, as the movie is completely different thing than the book, and this doesn't have anything to do with Middle Earth, which for this forum is made.

01-27-2002, 03:20 PM	#6
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	I didn't say (or at least mean), that the movie had nothing to do with the book, but what happens in the movie doesn't affect in what happens in the book. Sauron didn't blow up in the books. I don't think, that Peter Jackson, the guy behind Bad Taste, Meet the Feebles and Braindead would do hints to current happenings in film, that is meant to be an escape from them all. Jackson isn't a fool. LotR is so popular exactly becouse of the fact, that it's escape from reality. People want to forget terrorists, presidents etc. for awhile and relax. That's why fantasy films are now so popular. It couldn't had came in better time, to make damn lots of money.

01-27-2002, 09:07 PM	#10
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I live 40 miles in the opposite direction of you - central NJ by Princeton. I also have never heard anything about a contoversy over the Two Towers. I do find myself constantly (have no idea why) saying Twin Towers instead of Two Towers. If people want - you can check out my memorial page to the Twin Towers at - http://www.AboutNewJersey.com/twintowers/twintowers.htm Concerning any similarities between LOTR the movie and 9/11. They are completely coincidental I think. For one thing the movie was complete and finished when 9/11 happened. I do think it is extremely eerie hearing Galadriels's speech at the beginning. I always makes me think about what we are going through right now when I here that. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-27-2002 at 09:11 PM.

01-27-2002, 09:30 PM	#12
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Hi, NJD--(I worked in Union for 3 and a half years. Tuscan dairy, just off Rte 78.) Anyway, it's perfectly understandable saying Twin instead of Two. I said elsewhere in this moot that I was in the process of reading TTT on Sept. 11th. Lots of emotional paralells. Last edited by ragamuffin92 : 01-27-2002 at 09:46 PM.

01-27-2002, 09:55 PM	#13
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	I wasn't able to delete it, so I rewrote it!! Last edited by ragamuffin92 : 01-28-2002 at 12:45 AM.

01-27-2002, 10:50 PM	#14
*anduin* Entwife Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: louisville Posts: 3,718	Let's keep this thread on topic please. Discuss the parallels between the two if you wish, but leave the emotions, finger pointing and name calling out of it please.

01-27-2002, 11:15 PM	#15
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Sorry, Anduin--I tried my best not to flame or be unkind or uncivil, but I wanted to respond. I would have sent a response by e-mail, but I don't think she has one listed. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

01-27-2002, 11:44 PM	#16
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Ragamuffin92 - Being so close to "ground zero", like you, I feel the same way. Those people innocently were going on their way to work. After 4 months of funerals and stuff - it's a little bit hard not call the people that did this "evil". Sorry Anduin - but I needed to respond. Todd Beamer (one of the heros of flight 93) lived down the road from me in Cranbury and 6 other people died in my town. These are still open wounds for the people that live in this area. Also Anduin - you may remember me saying Twin instead of Two Towers at BMilder and HOBBIT's house when we were trying to play the LOTR game. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-27-2002 at 11:53 PM.

01-28-2002, 12:41 AM	#18
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Oh, FrodoFriend I'm glad you read my post, and now I'm going to delete it. (I would have preferred to have sent an e-mail). And I didn't mean that your opinion isn't valid, because it is. I was just saying I used to think the same thing, is all. I hope there are no hard feelings, because I enjoy your posts and your point of view.

01-28-2002, 12:44 AM	#19
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Thank you. And thank goodness we can have a mature conversation. Why are you deleting your post though? You could have PMed me. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-28-2002, 12:47 AM	#20
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	uhhhhhhh, PM? Well, it's CERTAINLY not because I didn't think of that....