![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heaven by the looks of it. Hell by the feel of it.
Posts: 1,052
|
![]() Why there were no female characters in the Fellowship? And for the whole story, I think I´ll remember four woman "heroes": Lady Galadriel, Lady Arwen, Lady Eowyn and the woman in the Houses of Healing. Why?
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
__________________
Hers. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rohan and Lorien ;)
Posts: 9
|
![]() Ur right! Thats why i decided to make up my own woman character and write Tolkien stories about her... its really fun. U should visit my thread: Make up ur own character. u can find it next to movies ( that was a mistake) in the tread section. Hope u visit.
![]()
__________________
Evenlirn ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
I've never found it bothersome that there wasn't a single woman in the Fellowship itself. Why should there have been? There were several female characters in the books outside the Fellowship, who've gotten their share of the lime-light.
No, I don't think you can accuse Tolkien of looking down on women, in fact I'd almost say he looked up to them. Nearly all the women are beautiful, strong in character, and some even powerful, and every single one of them on the good side.
__________________
We are not things. Last edited by Earniel : 10-20-2007 at 05:14 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Tolkien was a product of the times. Not that the times have changed much. If we needed to save the world from a megalomaniac and a ring, I'm sure we'd still send an all-male crew.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Hm, maybe. I'm thinking if we needed to rid the world of malvolent jewellery again, we probably send the politically correct team: a hero, a woman, somebody black, somebody muslim, somebody homosexual, and a few other depending on our target group.
__________________
We are not things. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
Quote:
i'd be tempted to send in the elite Muppet SAS "Band" - they have a proven track record. Of course this may be discriminatory against the Fraggle freedom group or possibly infringe on the rights of the tele-tubbies. ....... To be quite frank , Noble elf lord, i am constantly flabhergasted at JRR's total lack of a lesbian character - do you think this also was a deliberate stance? I look forward to your views. Last edited by Butterbeer : 10-21-2007 at 09:24 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Sapling
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: -
Posts: 7
|
![]() Quote:
What about Gladriel? She is one of the most powerful people on Middle Earth. An author which creates characters like this is unlikely to look down on woman.
__________________
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heaven by the looks of it. Hell by the feel of it.
Posts: 1,052
|
Quote:
![]() ![]() ![]()
__________________
Hers. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rohan and Lorien ;)
Posts: 9
|
I don't care what most of u say, but i totally believe that Tolkien was a little sexist. You say that he wasn't, but his only important female characters were also victims... and there were only about 4 of them. If he truly believed women were as good as men, then he'd have included one in the Company. Also, I think he contributed to this fact by not clearly including a woman dwarf... i mean, do they even exist.
__________________
Evenlirn ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Quote:
![]() Oh hang on, nevermind, I'm obviously confusing people. ![]()
__________________
We are not things. Last edited by Earniel : 10-21-2007 at 05:48 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: trondheim, norway
Posts: 1,388
|
Maybe the bit about dwarf females is that it should continue to be somewhat of a mystery if dwarfs really is formed in stone, and leaps out? A female dwarf would ruin some of the dwarfish fun for me at least.
Good point, Earniel ![]()
__________________
Don't Panic! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
|
Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Halfelven Daughter of the Dunedain, President of Entmoot
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In trouble. As usual.
Posts: 4,674
|
The women in Middle Earth were strong women with unfailing hearts. Eowyn could have did what her uncle said. If not that, she could have ran when faced with the WitchKing. IMO, Eowyn is the strongest character in the book. I have always wondered why Tolkien didn't include at least one woman in the Fellowship, but they were helped along the way by mostly women.
__________________
"Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life!"~ inked Don't meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. "Don't be such a sour wolf" Stiles ~ Heart Monitor http://www.wattpad.com/user/IceQueenofMitera |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
|
Quote:
She was appointed by the King to lead and guard the remaining people of Rohan - a position of trust and honor. Like a lovesick teenager, instead of doing her duty, she chose suicide. A glorious suicide- in the manner of her brave people, but suicide nonetheless. That is why she was not afraid of the Witch-King - not because she was so very brave, but because she had no hope. She abandoned her post in wartime. Anyone but her would have been punished. She had the incredible luck to kill the Nazgul Lord, thus her treason was not taken note of. The facts that she was the new king's sister and was severely wounded also helped. I think she displayed strength of character only when she managed to overcome grief and Shadow and seek a new life. Faramir helped in that. Last edited by Gordis : 10-22-2007 at 01:47 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
|
Tolkien looking down on women? No way. Hell no, he didn't look down upon women, but to me it has always seemed very obvious that this great literary genius we love and respect so much just didn't know women, only in a fantasy romantic sense, in his own beautiful mind, but certanly he did not write about them with the kind of pure, instinctual knowledge that he did about all of his brilliantly conceived male characters.
Tolkien was a man's man. I mean, he seemed creatively either careful or completely unrealistic about how he wrote about women, and how he designed his female-gendered characters. Because he may not have figured out how to know women on the LEVEL in his own real-life very well, by this lack of life-experience he both limited the quantity of great female characters in his epic story and then gave the ones he did create and did include in the Rings drama a fantastic and romantic quality. Each one of the female heroines or major players in LotR is sort of too-perfectly feminine, or larger-than-life (Galadriel, Rosie Gamgee, Arwen, Eowyn). Or fatalistic, or impossibly and slavishly romantic, or like Gordis was saying about Eowyn. And yeah, speaking of drarven women, where are all the female dwarves? I think Tolkien didn't know women as he did men in real life, and this lack of knowledge and experience with his opposite sex endedup being carried through into his art. It doesn't matter to ME, I love his art anyways.
__________________
Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
I agree with Lotesse that Tolkien's view of women is more naive than negative. But remember, LOTR owes more to medieval romances (in the literary term) than to any other form. It follows those conventions pretty closely, with the hobbits in a sort of "Piers Plowman" role.
That's the basis for a disagreement with Gordis. On the face of it (and personally) I agree completely about his description of Eowyn's behavior. In modern terms, she "abandoned her post." But Eowyn isn't a modern character, and Tolkien didn't see her in modern terms. She's clearly Elaine to Aragorn's Lancelot, and pining and fantasy is part of her responsibility. It's actually one of the few moments when Tolkien departs from the strict formula that he permits Eowyn and Faramir a happy ending.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The Tolkien Fan: male or female | Insidious Rex | General Messages | 40 | 04-14-2003 02:36 PM |
In which way has Tolkien changed your life? | Jonathan | General Messages | 11 | 01-28-2003 09:53 PM |
The Sundering of the Tolkien Fans | Black Breathalizer | Lord of the Rings Movies | 55 | 01-22-2003 01:27 PM |
Tolkien Lovers Anonymous | Laurelyn | RPG Forum | 759 | 08-05-2002 06:42 AM |
Women | anduin | Entmoot Archive | 190 | 10-02-2000 11:15 PM |