Standardized Testing

sisterandcousinandaunt · 04-18-2007, 02:45 PM

Most of you have experience with standardized testing, probably including PSAT's, SAT's or ACT's, as well as state testing, perhaps.

What do you think? Has this been a valuable way to evaluate your own accomplishments? Do you think it's a useful criteria for college entrance? If you've taken more than one format, do you prefer one over the other? Why?

brownjenkins · 04-18-2007, 03:37 PM

I did SATs when I was in high school. Now my children are subject to MCAST testing (State of Massachusetts tests designed to judge how good a school is and to determine whether or not you get a diploma).

I think they are a good idea for roughly gauging how well a school is doing and how well a student is doing, and colleges are free to use whatever acceptance tests they choose, since they are private institutions (or, at least the ones that put a lot of weight on SATs are).

I also think it's important for children to actually be faced by a test from time to time that is designed to be so difficult that no one passes it. Learning to deal with one's own shortcomings is one of the most important lessons one can take from their school years.

All that said, I don't like the "you must pass this test to graduate" thing. It gives no credit to the things children learn during their school years that have little or nothing to do with testable knowledge. It also removes the incentive for students who are not doing well to at least work towards a passing grade once they realize that even that is not good enough to earn a diploma. Dropout rates have risen in Massachusetts since the testing has become required.

Not all children have the physical capability to be A to B-grade students. You can teach them algebra for years and it still isn't going to stick. I think we have to learn to admit this and give a bit more credit to effort and a bit less to just results.

The Gaffer · 04-20-2007, 06:00 AM

Agree with BJ, though I've never been on the receiving end.

It's useful to a) see how your child is progressing from year to year and b) see how well the school is doing compared with what you'd expect for pupils with their SAT profiles.

In the latter case, government inspectors use it to measure "added value" from a school. In this way, schools from disadvantaged areas can get the credit for the extremely hard work they do.

**Mari** · 04-20-2007, 01:08 PM

It might be a bit different, but before going to Japan I had to take an English proficiency test. I chose to take to IELTS, because TOEFL doesn't test speaking or knowledge of the culture. At least not explicitly.
Now I want to take the Japanese Language proficiency test, but the problem is: I am very good when it comes to listening and speaking, but I completely suck at reading and writing. Off course the things that count most are the latter.
I don't think that is entirely fair.
Even if you can't read everything just like that, when I have a dictionary I am a fair reader and I am perfectly able to write on a computer, as long as I don't have to write the Chinese characters myself.
In reality, in most cases nowadays you don't write on paper and without a dictionary, you write on your laptop or cellphone which automatically shows the possible kanji (chinese characters) when you type the right pronounciation. So I don't think the things measured in the test are really the things you need to be able to do. As long as you are able to remember many kanji, you can pass. If you do not have that abillity, you can't pass even when in real life you might be better.
It was the same with the placement test: it was based only on whether you could read the text and answer the questions which off course contained a lot of kanji. The people from China who are used to using kanji all got a high score even though they could hardly speak Japanese.
In these cases I think they should look at more things.

tolkienfan · 05-25-2007, 12:15 PM

I am taking the SAT on the 2nd, and the ACT on the 9th. I'm so nervous. I've been studying like crazy. Since I'm homeschooled, the SAT matters more for me than for most kids.

***Tessar*** · 05-25-2007, 02:35 PM

I'm surprised to hear that. I personally only took the ACT. I think I got a 25 or a 26. I scored in the top 96% on my English and Reading Comp., but I was only in the 45-50% on my Math and Science. Which was sort of alright... those dragged my score down considerably, but on the other hand I am -terrible- at math, and I never studied much science, soooo...

The score I got was good enough to get my into the college I wanted to go to, which has an excellent music program, so I definitely lucked out

. If I had wanted to go to a conservatory (urgh... no thanks!) then I probably would have had to retake the ACT and possible also take the SAT.

Personally I'm not against standardized testing... I'm not a huge fan, but I can see the logic behind it.

04-18-2007, 02:45 PM	#1
sisterandcousinandaunt Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,535	Standardized Testing Most of you have experience with standardized testing, probably including PSAT's, SAT's or ACT's, as well as state testing, perhaps. What do you think? Has this been a valuable way to evaluate your own accomplishments? Do you think it's a useful criteria for college entrance? If you've taken more than one format, do you prefer one over the other? Why? __________________ That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May

04-18-2007, 03:37 PM	#2
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	I did SATs when I was in high school. Now my children are subject to MCAST testing (State of Massachusetts tests designed to judge how good a school is and to determine whether or not you get a diploma). I think they are a good idea for roughly gauging how well a school is doing and how well a student is doing, and colleges are free to use whatever acceptance tests they choose, since they are private institutions (or, at least the ones that put a lot of weight on SATs are). I also think it's important for children to actually be faced by a test from time to time that is designed to be so difficult that no one passes it. Learning to deal with one's own shortcomings is one of the most important lessons one can take from their school years. All that said, I don't like the "you must pass this test to graduate" thing. It gives no credit to the things children learn during their school years that have little or nothing to do with testable knowledge. It also removes the incentive for students who are not doing well to at least work towards a passing grade once they realize that even that is not good enough to earn a diploma. Dropout rates have risen in Massachusetts since the testing has become required. Not all children have the physical capability to be A to B-grade students. You can teach them algebra for years and it still isn't going to stick. I think we have to learn to admit this and give a bit more credit to effort and a bit less to just results. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

04-20-2007, 01:08 PM	#4
Mari Elf Lady Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale Posts: 8,588	It might be a bit different, but before going to Japan I had to take an English proficiency test. I chose to take to IELTS, because TOEFL doesn't test speaking or knowledge of the culture. At least not explicitly. Now I want to take the Japanese Language proficiency test, but the problem is: I am very good when it comes to listening and speaking, but I completely suck at reading and writing. Off course the things that count most are the latter. I don't think that is entirely fair. Even if you can't read everything just like that, when I have a dictionary I am a fair reader and I am perfectly able to write on a computer, as long as I don't have to write the Chinese characters myself. In reality, in most cases nowadays you don't write on paper and without a dictionary, you write on your laptop or cellphone which automatically shows the possible kanji (chinese characters) when you type the right pronounciation. So I don't think the things measured in the test are really the things you need to be able to do. As long as you are able to remember many kanji, you can pass. If you do not have that abillity, you can't pass even when in real life you might be better. It was the same with the placement test: it was based only on whether you could read the text and answer the questions which off course contained a lot of kanji. The people from China who are used to using kanji all got a high score even though they could hardly speak Japanese. In these cases I think they should look at more things. __________________ Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply. ...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"...

05-25-2007, 12:15 PM	#5
tolkienfan Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Internet Posts: 803	Not the dreaded SAT's! I am taking the SAT on the 2nd, and the ACT on the 9th. I'm so nervous. I've been studying like crazy. Since I'm homeschooled, the SAT matters more for me than for most kids. __________________ Don't be hasty! Thanks so much to Last Child of Ungoliant, Twista, and BeardofPants for my avatar!

04-20-2007, 06:00 AM	#3
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	Agree with BJ, though I've never been on the receiving end. It's useful to a) see how your child is progressing from year to year and b) see how well the school is doing compared with what you'd expect for pupils with their SAT profiles. In the latter case, government inspectors use it to measure "added value" from a school. In this way, schools from disadvantaged areas can get the credit for the extremely hard work they do.

05-25-2007, 02:35 PM	#6
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	I'm surprised to hear that. I personally only took the ACT. I think I got a 25 or a 26. I scored in the top 96% on my English and Reading Comp., but I was only in the 45-50% on my Math and Science. Which was sort of alright... those dragged my score down considerably, but on the other hand I am -terrible- at math, and I never studied much science, soooo... The score I got was good enough to get my into the college I wanted to go to, which has an excellent music program, so I definitely lucked out . If I had wanted to go to a conservatory (urgh... no thanks!) then I probably would have had to retake the ACT and possible also take the SAT. Personally I'm not against standardized testing... I'm not a huge fan, but I can see the logic behind it.