Celeborn's age

jammi567 · 10-18-2006, 06:49 AM

Does anyone know how old Celeborn is? he's a kinsman of Thingol, but does that mean he was born at Cuivienen(?), or on the Great Jouney, or at Doriath?

brownjenkins · 10-18-2006, 11:10 AM

Tolkien changed his idea on this a few times. Originally, he was seen as a close decendent of Thingol, but later a good bit older, possibly on par with Galadriel, born in Valinor or a bit earlier.

The Gaffer · 10-18-2006, 11:22 AM

My understanding was that Celeborn hadn't been to Valinor, but lived in Doriath.

I am aware that the story of Celeborn and Galadriel was changed many times and no "final" version was settled upon by JRRT before his death.

Unfinished Tales has various bits and pieces of these versions.

The Telcontarion · 10-18-2006, 11:33 AM

I always go by published info in these cases, as christopher Tolkien said himself the silmarillion is the official story; the home presented corrections, but for continuuity you follow the sil.

in the sil, he was said to be a prince of Doriath and close kin to thingol, so I assume he was born sometime after the awakening but probably before the founding of Doriath.

jammi567 · 10-18-2006, 12:21 PM

Yeah, maybe on the jouney to valinor

Lady Marion Magdalena · 10-18-2006, 02:16 PM

He's Thingol's, brother's grandson, if you look at the family trees in the back. It's probably safe to assume that he is a little older, but probably close to the same age as his lady. Give or take a century or two.

brownjenkins · 10-18-2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

I always go by published info in these cases, as christopher Tolkien said himself the silmarillion is the official story; the home presented corrections, but for continuuity you follow the sil.

in the sil, he was said to be a prince of Doriath and close kin to thingol, so I assume he was born sometime after the awakening but probably before the founding of Doriath.

True, however UT mentions that Tolkien's later writings pointed to the possibility of Celeborn and Galadriel meeting in Valinor, and JRR may have even been intending to fit this into the final rewrite of the Sil, which he could not complete before his death.

So, while CT may call the Sil "the official story", JRR might not agree.

To me, the official story is undecided, as is true with much regarding the first age.

The Telcontarion · 10-18-2006, 04:36 PM

Yes you are right, I do believe that JRR would have changed it to that version of the story where galadriel actually leaves valinor before feanor does. But that did not happen, what is published is what I would go by not the later notes etc.

10-18-2006, 06:49 AM	#1
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	Celeborn's age Does anyone know how old Celeborn is? he's a kinsman of Thingol, but does that mean he was born at Cuivienen(?), or on the Great Jouney, or at Doriath? __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

10-18-2006, 11:10 AM	#2
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	Tolkien changed his idea on this a few times. Originally, he was seen as a close decendent of Thingol, but later a good bit older, possibly on par with Galadriel, born in Valinor or a bit earlier. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

10-18-2006, 11:33 AM	#4
The Telcontarion The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: By the shores of cuivinien Posts: 694	I always go by published info in these cases, as christopher Tolkien said himself the silmarillion is the official story; the home presented corrections, but for continuuity you follow the sil. in the sil, he was said to be a prince of Doriath and close kin to thingol, so I assume he was born sometime after the awakening but probably before the founding of Doriath. __________________ Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

10-18-2006, 12:21 PM	#5
jammi567 I'm Eru, and lord of Arda. Join Date: May 2006 Location: southampton, hampshire Posts: 2,609	Yeah, maybe on the jouney to valinor __________________ Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.

10-18-2006, 02:16 PM	#6
Lady Marion Magdalena Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a Field of Giant Daisies. Posts: 821	He's Thingol's, brother's grandson, if you look at the family trees in the back. It's probably safe to assume that he is a little older, but probably close to the same age as his lady. Give or take a century or two. __________________ "Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" Last edited by Lady Marion Magdalena : 12-06-2006 at 08:19 PM.

10-18-2006, 11:22 AM	#3
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	My understanding was that Celeborn hadn't been to Valinor, but lived in Doriath. I am aware that the story of Celeborn and Galadriel was changed many times and no "final" version was settled upon by JRRT before his death. Unfinished Tales has various bits and pieces of these versions.

10-18-2006, 04:36 PM	#8
The Telcontarion The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: By the shores of cuivinien Posts: 694	Yes you are right, I do believe that JRR would have changed it to that version of the story where galadriel actually leaves valinor before feanor does. But that did not happen, what is published is what I would go by not the later notes etc. __________________ Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;