Wolves, Wargs, or Werewolves

[Gil-Galad 2.0]

I'm rereading the Fellowship of the Ring and I'm in the Moria chapter. But I was wondering about the wolves that attacked the Fellowship before they entered Moria. It said that when day came the bodies of the wolves were gone, and I was wondering what exactly they killed a load of the night before.
I guesed that it was either Wolves, Wargs, or Werewolves.
If anyone knows or has a quote that would help, please post it.

Gil-Galad 2.0

[Butterbeer]

they were no ordinary wargs... i.e not a wild pack but 'soldiers' if you will under unders ... ialways assumed they dragged away their own dead .... and as, like as not, probably feasted on them ...

always thought that scene should have been in the film btw ... love that scene ..very visual

(welcome to da Moot BTW)

best, BB

[Ellf]

They were definately Wargs. "The wargs have come west of the Mountains" LOTR and... "A great host of Wargs had gathered silently and was now attacking them from every side at once." LOTR and... "These were no ordinary wolves..." LOTR

Definately missed in the movie.

[Alcuin]

There were no bodies in the morning, only the arrows that Legolas had fired into them, save one of which only the head remained after its shaft had burned.

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

ialways assumed they dragged away their own dead .... and as, like as not, probably feasted on them ...

Had they “dragged away their own dead,” they would have been observed, and probably attacked. But perhaps wargs might not have turned their noses to a little cannibalism were other food scarce, as you suggest.

Originally Posted by Ellf

They were definately Wargs.

Are you sure that sounds like Wargs to you? Do their bodies vanish when they are killed? But these were certainly “‘no ordinary wolves,’” whether they looked like Wargs or not.

By the way, Gandalf called their leader “‘Hound of Sauron.’” One of Sauron’s titles in the First Age was “Lord of Werewolves.”

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Had they “dragged away their own dead,” they would have been observed, and probably attacked. But perhaps wargs might not have turned their noses to a little cannibalism were other food scarce, as you suggest.
.”

observed by whom out in the wilderness in the night?

no one but the nine and the wargs were way out there in the wilderness in the dead of night, and the fellowship remained within the circles of trees in a defensive postion ...

best BB

[Ellf]

Alcuin,
I posted three qoutes from LOTR. I don't understand the reasoning of your post. Please explain how three qoutes from the LOTR that say the beasts are Wargs and you say not.

[Alcuin]

A werewolf, or loup garou, is an idea that developed in medieval France. During the Little Ice Age, while the Black Death was affecting southeastern France in particular, there were apparently wolf-packs that attacked villages, and there were also lone wolves who attacked people. During this same period, there were witch-scares and witch-hunts throughout Europe (possibly instigated through the after-effects of ergot outbreaks in the wet, soggy wheatfields). There were also scattered reports of cannibalism due to famine.

One of the notions that began at that time was that people were turning into wolves during full moons and attacking people. There is a documented case from the late 1500s that I recall of a man in France who was ill and sought treatment from a woman who was what we would call an herbalist. This woman, who was not, of course, trained at one of the medical universities, treated him with an unguent, or medicated cream. The man claimed that this cream turned him into a wolf, in which shape he was accused of the murder of several people. He was tried and convicted of these crimes.

The myth of lycanthropy also seems to have arisen in medieval France: this is a contagion, a disease if you will, in which one person can be infected by another. This might be a misinterpretation of rabies, which does cause those infected to become mad, at which point they will indeed attempt to bite others, who may become infected and suffer a similar fate. You should bear in mind that at this stage of human history, diseases were commonly believed to be caused by evil spirits: the dwarfs and elves of medieval literature are not the noble Durin’s Folk or Exiled Noldor, but mischievous or evil creatures that caused blight, illness, miscarriage, headache, dementia, and any number of human afflictions: that lycanthropy was a disease with a curse that might affect the soul should not be seen as out of the mainstream of medieval thought: it was the mainstream of the beliefs of the common folk.

Tolkien is not drawing on any of these traditions, as far as I can tell. His werewolves are of an entirely different sort. He describes “evil spirits” that entered into animal forms and manifested supernatural powers through those forms. The werewolves of Middle-earth were one of these manifestations, such as Draugluin, Carcharoth, and even werewolf-Sauron. Another might be the dragons. In The Shaping of Middle-earth, there is the evil Boldog, a fallen Maia in the form of a mighty orc-captain. I have seen an excellent argument (not my own, but I will admit that I ascribe to it) that the barrow-wights of Tyrn Gorthad were the spirits of fallen Elves that had been sent by the Witch-king to inhabit the corpses of the interred Dúnedain.

The basis for this is from Morgoth’s Ring, in “The Later Quenta Silmarillion (II)”, “Of Death and the Severance of Fëa and Hröa”, in which it is stated that the spirits of Elves who die are summoned to Mandos, but that they may refuse the summons; but that so refusing to face the Valar was a sign of taint, and subjected the Elven-spirit to a summons by Morgoth (and apparently later by Sauron). Houseless Elves wander the earth, looking for bodies, which they are willing to steal from the Living (even from Men) if they can.

Some were enslaved by the Dark Lord and do his work still, though he himself is gone. They will not speak truth or wisdom. To call on them is folly. To attempt to master them and to make them servants of one’s own will is wickedness. Such practices are of Morgoth; and the necromancers are of the host of Sauron his servant.

-|-

Afterthought:

Beorn is described in terms similar to a Norse berserker. Berserkers are attested in many Dark Age and early medieval documents as warriors possessed of immense strength and agility, immune to pain, fighting without regard to their lives or safety. Modern folk often attribute this condition to the use of psychoactive plants or funguses, or to dismiss it altogether as myth; Dark Age and early medieval rulers and clergy did not have that luxury: they were outlawed in Norway in the early 11th century, and later in Iceland as well. Until then, groups of berserkers banded together, howling, banging their helmets with their weapons and shields, biting their shields, to reach a bloodlust feared by friend and foe alike.

berserkr is Old Norse for “bear shirt.” Berserkers sometimes took names combined with the Old Norse word for “bear” – björn – in them. I think it is Tolkien’s clear intent to paint Beorn as a classic berserker, not a lycanthrope.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I read it in one of my books. But it's been a while and I realise I don't remember enough. I'll have to research it again and get back to you on this.

Thank you! I hang around forums looking for this kind of stuff.

Originally Posted by jammi567

Looking back, i have no idea.

Better your friends at Entmoot rather than your professor at University. We all do it. * ducks *