Valar refuse to receive the Ring?

[CAB]

This is a question I would like to ask. Was Elrond’s statement that the Valar wouldn’t receive the Ring (to destroy it) accurate or was it simply an excuse to protect the Elves’ avenue of escape from Middle Earth, the Grey Havens?

Elrond says that the ring belongs to Middle Earth and therefore those in Middle Earth must deal with it, yet it was made by a Maia originally associated with Aule. Would Aule really be unwilling to swing his hammer a couple of times to free Middle Earth from the tyranny of one of his own people? Can it be argued that the Valar would refuse to help in these matters when they had sent the Istari, members of their own order, to help defeat Sauron?

It seems possible that Elrond and Gandalf were willing to put the inhabitants of Middle Earth at much greater risk of falling under Sauron’s rule in order to lessen the risk to the Havens. If Sauron regains the One Ring it may only mean a little less time for the Elves to linger in Middle Earth, but if the Havens are destroyed in Sauron’s pursuit of the Ring the Elves may be trapped.

Any opinions?

[Gordis]

Very interesting question, CAB.

I don't have a firm opinion on the matter. On one hand, it might well have been an excuse: the Counsil was very tight-lipped as there were plenty of outsiders present. On the other hand, Elrond and Galadriel had the possibility to make contact with the Valar and ask their opinion on the matter early in the Third Age.

I don't doubt that the question what to do with the Ring had been very acute in TA 1-3, when Isildur held the Ring. I believe, the fire of Mt.Doom had been extinct by then, so, probably, there were no means to destroy the Ring in ME.
The elves might have contacted Valinor then - sending a message with one of the departing Elves, and got a negative answer (probably carried by the Istari).
If such a proposal had been made, the Valar might have refused because of two possible reasons:
1. The Ring-project was a work of rebellious Noldor, and Valinor had no wish to deal with consequences of their foolishness.
2. The Valar were afraid of the evil effect the Ring might have on themselves. A Vala - what a prize catch for the little golden Ring!

But that leaves open the question why Glorfindel, who was most likely a member of the White Counsil, was not aware of this.

Then if the Ring cannot be kept from him for ever by strength' said Glorfindel, `two things only remain for us to attempt: to send it over the Sea, or to destroy it.'
`But Gandalf has revealed to us that we cannot destroy it by any craft that we here possess,' said Elrond. `And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth; it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it.'

.

So, perhaps, the Valar were never actually asked, and it was fully Erlond's and Gandalf decision to send the Ring to Mordor. I believe it was heavily influenced by Gandalf. He might have known that the Ring was meant be destroyed there as it had been in the Music.

[arvedui_last_king]

I don't personally think that the destruction of the ring was in the music - I think it was one of those things hidden by Iluvatar.

[CAB]

I believe you are definitely right Gordis that the question of what to do with the Ring had been discussed by the Wise before the Council of Elrond. Actually, I think the Council was just a courtesy to those present (especially Aragorn and Frodo) and that the matter had already been decided. Does anyone on the Council seem to agree with Elrond and Gandalf on their decision?

Also look at what Gandalf says to Frodo in Bag End when Frodo asks where he should take the Ring after he leaves the Shire. “But you cannot see very far. Neither can I. It may be your task to find the Cracks of Doom; but that quest may be for others: I do not know.” This quote can probably be interpreted different ways but one view is that Gandalf already knew that the Ring would be sent to Mordor.

I disagree though that the Ring was likely a danger to the Valar. If Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel, who are far weaker than the Valar and in a much, much more precarious position than anyone in Valinor, are able to refuse the Ring, then most likely the Valar could too. If Manwe was willing to let Melkor wander freely through Valinor, would he be afraid of an object made by Melkor’s much weaker servant? Maybe Manwe had learned his lesson?

[Gordis]

The Valar are also much more conceited than even Galadriel.
In their power they can believe themselves safe... And the Ring works subtly.

The Valar are not beyond turning Evil. Wasn't Manwe Melkor's brother?

Actually, Aule is the one most endangered: two of his Maiar had turned to evil: Sauron and Saruman. The Dwarves he made were greedy and often served Sauron.

Perhaps there was something attuned to evil in the Vala himself?

[Old toby's wicked weed]

what meaning of "evil" are you attributing in your meaning Mr Gordis?

If coveting is a sin and evil, then are not most elves from west evil?