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06-04-2005, 08:38 PM | #1 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
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Ringbearer
I have wondered about this before, but am thinking about it much more today.
Part of what Tolkien liked to do was to sort of 'plant' things in his Middle Earth mythology that would be connected to traditions that we carry with us today. After all, that seems to be the apparent 'purpose' of much mythology (which he in large part attempted to emulate) - to create explanations for why things were the way they were. I don't know if all of you are familiar with this custom, but in America these days, it's common for there to be two very young members of a 'wedding party' - a young lady who is called a 'Flower Girl' and a young gentleman who is called a 'Ring Bearer'. I was never a ring bearer myself as a child, and we didn't have those positions at our wedding (my wife's preference - she was afraid they would just be a couple things wrong waiting to happen ). Today however, we had a wedding at our church, and our oldest son, now 7, was the Ring Bearer (which is why I'm thinking of it). So anyway: 'Ring Bearer' (uh - let's save the discussion on comparisons between a wedding ring and a Ring of Power for another thread, OK? ) - carrying a ring, short Hobbit-sized guy, etc, etc. Was Tolkien thinking of this AT ALL when he used the term? In particular, it seems like Aragorn and Arwen use that term often in addressing Frodo after their own wedding. Whatchaguysthink?
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06-04-2005, 11:47 PM | #2 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI-woods, NY
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I think, as I already told you, if you are looking for analogies, you will definately find them.
But the Ringbearer in connection with the wedding custom...I don't think Tolkien had in mind this specific meaning. But on another hand, he had boys, and such custom also popular in England...so who knows...? Maybe the idea to call Frodo "a Ringbearer" sprung out of this association. Interesting thought. |
06-05-2005, 03:54 PM | #3 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
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i disagree totally: never heard of it in england, esp not in tolkien's time
I was on the phone to my cousin earler (who is a wedding photograpaher) and i remembered to ask him about it : he's never heard of it - and he's done hundreds of weddings in the uk. Sorry valandil but from my perspective you really are clutching at straws with that one - ps Olmer: did you know we've started a rpg more or less in your honour: the fellowship of the ringwraiths: its still very early doors but it'd be great if you could add the odd post or two either in the rpg or in a directoial sense in the discussion thread, its a bit of fun at the momment: but it could also seriously examine various theories too. try and add a little input when you have a momment, cheers butterbeer |
06-06-2005, 07:08 AM | #4 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Then maybe I have it backwards.
Maybe LOTR fans here in the USA started the custom of having Hobbit-sized "Ring Bearers" as a part of their weddings! Along about the 50's or 60's...
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06-06-2005, 07:19 AM | #5 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Agree with the UK contributions: it's not a tradition here. However, people seem to be starting to do it. I think it's a nice way to have your kids involved in the ceremony without freaking them out or risking them dropping the ring down the bog.
I had my son (aged 7 at the time) carry the rings from the best man to the minister at my wedding. Also, I'm best man at a wedding in October, and they want him and the bridesmaid's daughter to do the same. I think it's more to do with changing demographics: people getting remarried wanting to give their kids a role. |
06-06-2005, 07:41 AM | #6 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Most uses I've seen have been someone's cousin or nephew - although I imagine that more and more, people who are re-marrying, or who had a child before marriage - are using this to involve their kids, as you say.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
06-06-2005, 07:48 AM | #7 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
It might be very well that with Tolkien's book got started the new custom. Need to do a little research in connection with years of its launching, thought. P.S. How is the book going? I saw you did really in depth research on the North Kingdom subject. You will do it as Firiel's letters, don't you? |
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06-06-2005, 07:54 AM | #8 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Quote:
I've also begun my first story - but I haven't gotten back to it in a long time. I project 7 chapters - wrote most of the first one in late March, but haven't progressed any further. I know what's going to happen, it's just making time for it that is so difficult... Thanks for asking.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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