Could he be overthrown?

Telcontar_Dunedain · 03-27-2005, 03:51 PM

If Galadriel or Elrond claimed the One could they have overthrown Sauron. Sauron was a Maia spirit as was Gamdalf and Saruman which is why I didn't include them, but would the power of an elf bearing the One, be enough to overthrow a powerful Maia?

Haradrim · 03-28-2005, 11:44 PM

well T.D. I think that depends on how strong you think that Elrond and Galadriel are. As I think most of us agree they were the strongest of the elves at the time. If the ring had manifested enough power in them then yes they could have overthrown Sauron. But another thing is that we have no idea how the ring would work for an elf. It usually gives you the power you most want. Hobbits are very sly and clever and therefore invisibility would be a most excellent gift for them. However Elves as Elrond and Galadriel most want to preserve their lands so maybe it would do the same as the three did but to a much greater level.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 03-29-2005, 05:57 AM

I doubt it. That was the power of th three, but the power of the One was destruction. There is another discussion going on about this in the 'Why did the Ring betray Isildur thread' if you want to check it out.

Gordis · 03-29-2005, 08:37 AM

We know so little about the functioning of the rings...
On one hand ,Sauron himself with the One could not take over the ME in the SA.
On the other hand, Sauron was really worried, when he thought that Aragorn has got his ring and was planning to use it (after the Palantir session). I think Sauron's problem at the end of the TA was that he relied mostly on the 9 nazgul and 3 of the 7 Dwarven Rings that he has gathered to himself. If ANYONE wielded the One, Sauron would be very much under control himself, so he would be obliged to destrow his ring collection or bury it real deep. And then he will have problems controlling the nazgul and probably even orcs?...Though the orcs, IMHO, could be controlled without any additional power devices.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 03-29-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordis

We know so little about the functioning of the rings...
On one hand ,Sauron himself with the One could not take over the ME in the SA.
On the other hand, Sauron was really worried, when he thought that Aragorn has got his ring and was planning to use it (after the Palantir session). I think Sauron's problem at the end of the TA was that he relied mostly on the 9 nazgul and 3 of the 7 Dwarven Rings that he has gathered to himself. If ANYONE wielded the One, Sauron would be very much under control himself, so he would be obliged to destrow his ring collection or bury it real deep. And then he will have problems controlling the nazgul and probably even orcs?...Though the orcs, IMHO, could be controlled without any additional power devices.

Sauron would not have been under control himself. He was not wearing Ring and the Rng had been severed from him. That's why he wanted the One back.

Haradrim · 03-29-2005, 04:58 PM

well if were now sayign that Sauron was not responsible for his actions after the ring was put on his finger then how do w know that he in fact did anything wrong. The ring was merely controlling him and he shouldnt be held accoutnable for it. Even his making of the ring shouldnt be considered evil merely intellectual theft of the elves. Im not saying I believe this though I wonder how many people I could tick off by doing so.

Gordis · 03-29-2005, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Sauron would not have been under control himself. He was not wearing Ring and the Rng had been severed from him. That's why he wanted the One back.

At the time of LOTR Sauron was wearing 9 nazgul rings. With them he controlled the nazgul. He also had three of the 7. It is canon!
So, if anybody started wielding the One, Sauron will be controlled by this person -the new Ringlord - as an owner of 12 rings.

me9996 · 03-29-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

If Galadriel or Elrond claimed the One could they have overthrown Sauron. Sauron was a Maia spirit as was Gamdalf and Saruman which is why I didn't include them, but would the power of an elf bearing the One, be enough to overthrow a powerful Maia?

Nah espesaly if it's the Maias ring

Haradrim · 03-29-2005, 04:09 PM

But where does it say the ring was a destructive ring. IT was used that way by Sauron. But under Bilbo and Frodo it was used for going invisible. Not a very destructive force I might say. But then again Bilbo and Frodo never really tried to do anything else with it. Wouldnt it be embarassing for Frodo if he coudl have used the power to teleport himself ontop of Mt. Doom from Rivendell. THen because he used it only once just drop it in. THat would be quite ironic. Mind you I havent read HoME. So maybe its explained somwehere in there.

03-27-2005, 03:51 PM	#1
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Could he be overthrown? If Galadriel or Elrond claimed the One could they have overthrown Sauron. Sauron was a Maia spirit as was Gamdalf and Saruman which is why I didn't include them, but would the power of an elf bearing the One, be enough to overthrow a powerful Maia? __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

03-28-2005, 11:44 PM	#2
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	well T.D. I think that depends on how strong you think that Elrond and Galadriel are. As I think most of us agree they were the strongest of the elves at the time. If the ring had manifested enough power in them then yes they could have overthrown Sauron. But another thing is that we have no idea how the ring would work for an elf. It usually gives you the power you most want. Hobbits are very sly and clever and therefore invisibility would be a most excellent gift for them. However Elves as Elrond and Galadriel most want to preserve their lands so maybe it would do the same as the three did but to a much greater level. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

03-29-2005, 05:57 AM	#3
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	I doubt it. That was the power of th three, but the power of the One was destruction. There is another discussion going on about this in the 'Why did the Ring betray Isildur thread' if you want to check it out. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

03-29-2005, 04:58 PM	#6
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	well if were now sayign that Sauron was not responsible for his actions after the ring was put on his finger then how do w know that he in fact did anything wrong. The ring was merely controlling him and he shouldnt be held accoutnable for it. Even his making of the ring shouldnt be considered evil merely intellectual theft of the elves. Im not saying I believe this though I wonder how many people I could tick off by doing so. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

03-29-2005, 04:09 PM	#9
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	But where does it say the ring was a destructive ring. IT was used that way by Sauron. But under Bilbo and Frodo it was used for going invisible. Not a very destructive force I might say. But then again Bilbo and Frodo never really tried to do anything else with it. Wouldnt it be embarassing for Frodo if he coudl have used the power to teleport himself ontop of Mt. Doom from Rivendell. THen because he used it only once just drop it in. THat would be quite ironic. Mind you I havent read HoME. So maybe its explained somwehere in there. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

03-29-2005, 08:37 AM	#4
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	We know so little about the functioning of the rings... On one hand ,Sauron himself with the One could not take over the ME in the SA. On the other hand, Sauron was really worried, when he thought that Aragorn has got his ring and was planning to use it (after the Palantir session). I think Sauron's problem at the end of the TA was that he relied mostly on the 9 nazgul and 3 of the 7 Dwarven Rings that he has gathered to himself. If ANYONE wielded the One, Sauron would be very much under control himself, so he would be obliged to destrow his ring collection or bury it real deep. And then he will have problems controlling the nazgul and probably even orcs?...Though the orcs, IMHO, could be controlled without any additional power devices.